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Exploring potential collaboration between Kairos and Bootc projects #31
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Hi, thanks so much for filing this! At a quick glance, I'd say there's indeed 85% overlap between the goals and methodology of the projects. But there's a lot of interesting stuff in that remaining 15% 😄 First and most obviously, bootc is a brand new project written mostly by one person with little documentation and no production use. Whereas it looks like Kairos is much more mature. But the point is that the current backing code of bootc (mostly ostree and the new ostree Rust) is also very mature with lots of production use - this is just a thin new "frontend" to it. (There's literally just ~500 lines of code in this repo today, though that will change once #30 lands). I am totally open to collaboration! I think once bootc progresses a little bit we will start having community meetings indeed, or to piggy-back on the podman ones for 5-10 minutes perhaps. I'd also be open to joining Kairos community events. To start, I'm now in the Matrix channel. Offhand, some things in that remaining 15%:
It doesn't at all today, but indeed part of the idea is that we should also support that flow. I'd like to investigate standardizing or at least collaborating on shared code for things like how to store and manage raw block devices stored in a registry. The obvious thing of just sticking a disk image in a tar layer is painful from a bandwidth perspective; in coreos we have tooling called "osmet" that synthesizes disk images from ostree and tar (much like jigdo). Thanks again for filing this and bringing Kairos to my awareness. Looking forward to continuing this conversation and collaborating! |
Thanks for the quick answer!
Awesome :) looking forward to hear more
That's the same approach of Kairos. The image being pulled can be run with docker, podman, etc as a standard application, but still bootable from Kairos without any container engine (it does loopback mount the image behind the scene). As per partitioning, it is completely flat, and used just to store bootable images: https://kairos.io/docs/architecture/immutable/#design Additional tooling is in place to convert a container image to a bootable ISO, or a raw disk.
I see! that's interesting and could be a meeting point. I always wanted to explore an ostree backend for Kairos, and maybe
Right, this indeed isn't really obvious from our docs but Kairos while has primarly focus for Kubernetes it does handle well also outside of it.
Altough we don't support it directly yet, it is in our roadmap and I do agree it tends to be a can of worm, but I see a lot of crossing points between our projects!
👍
👍 I don't have a strong opinion here, but I welcome Rust. I think languages are just barriers to what someone wants to really achieve and the computer, so I don't mind, and there are obviously better choices than others based on the scope of the software.
For kairos we don't store separate disks and push them as containers images - we flatten the container image in runtime when we write it to disk so there is still one source of truth - you can run the container locally as an app, or just boot it seamlessly.
Thanks to you! It was good to understand to set expectations and understand where |
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hello! 👋
I've just learned today about https://github.com/containers/bootc ! I tried to reach over matrix but was redirected here - I'm the maintainer of https://github.com/kairos-io/kairos which is a project that have many crossing points with bootc, and I was wondering myself if you would be interested in having a chat! I see there are community events for podman but none for bootc. Just curious, how does it handles upgrades without ostree? is it a/b style? is the OS immutable or takes over only the upgrade process?
Best
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