EIP 102 (Serenity): Rename "gas" to "mana"

[vbuterin]

To commemorate the increased environmental friendliness of proof of stake, starting from Serenity "gas" should be renamed to "mana".

Rationale

Aside from the above, "mana" is a better descriptor because:

• Unlike "gas", "mana" is typically understood to be ephemeral and nontransferable, clarifying the relationship between ether and gas/mana that has so far been a source of great confusion.
• Gas in the real world is non-renewable, gas in Ethereum is renewable. Mana is typically understood to be renewable, and so would be more accurate.

Implementation

 for x in `find .`; sed -i s/gas/mana/g $x

[taoeffect]

I think it's brilliant.

Fully support. 👍

Side-question: why the two orders of magnitude jump in EIP numbering?

[vbuterin]

0xx = pre-serenity
1xx = serenity
2xx = scalability or beyond

is the schema that I am trying to put in place.

[JeffreyBPetersen]

Is that schema an EIPIP?

The switch from gas to mana sounds solidly justified for the small confusion it might cause.
It's also much catchier and a good thematic fit alongside "Ethereum".

[janx]

mana_price sounds a bit weird?

[vbuterin]

@janx luckily that opcode will likely be removed in EIP 101 entirely: #28 :)

[Smithgift]

Insert MTG reference here.

On a serious note, gas has a real-world analogy: you use oil (ether) to make a fuel (gas). I have a minor concern that this could cause confusion for the non-geek. ("Listen, the reason you're having trouble with your bingo dapp is you're out of mana. See, um, mana is...") That said, I agree with the idea.

[romanman]

@vbuterin, I have a small doubt, that mana has too much magical/mythical connotation associated with white wizards and flying unicorns, mostly understood by gamers rather than modern finance world. Dont you think we can have an adaptation problem?

[wanderer]

associated with white wizards and flying unicorns

@romanman I think this would help adaptation :)

[gavofyork]

"mana" may end up being shorted to the single-syllable, three-letter "MAN", which could result in accusations of gender bias...

[gavofyork]

i also agree with @romanman . i'm all for sci-fi references but "mana" just makes me think of sad 13-year-olds playing WoW in their pyjamas.

[Smithgift]

On the subject of other words for gas, "steam" both has a power connotation, works colloquially ("ran out of steam"), and also means, in a sense, ether.

[PeterBorah]

I am mildly opposed, on the argument that change is confusing and should be avoided unless necessary. People are going to look at old code and say, "What is all this 'gas' referred to?" Veterans are going to keep calling it gas out of habit, confusing newcomers. I don't think the mild semantic benefits of the switch are worth the "transaction costs".

[PeterBorah]

Changing "contract" to something like "agent", on the other hand, would definitely be worth it.

[Smithgift]

I dislike "contract" as a name myself, as it implies contracts are like financial contracts, when really they are more like World-Computer Programs.

[karalabe]

@gavofyork 👍

Mana might seem fun, but imho it would become an obstacle for people to take the project seriously. I'm all for dropping gas, but we should aim for something simple, elegant and serious, neither of which can be said about mana.

[CJentzsch]

Something not funny would be "taxes". Basically paying tax to the miners in the ethereum world.
But what it really is, is a unit for computation time or storage on a super computer.
Might want to call it "Flips" , since every calculation as well as storing data is just about flipping some bits.
Ideally one "Flip" is exactly the cost of one bit flip :-) .

[obscuren]

👎

Look at coin base, we didn't even manage to remove a reference which was simply borrowed. I fear changing gas to something else (forget mana!) will be even worse.

[LefterisJP]

Let's keep naming in a professional level. I don't see something wrong with Gas, and we want the ecosystem to grow and our technology to be widely adopted by many different sectors. Naming it "mana" won't help our cause.

[Gustav-Simonsson]

[hughlang]

I'm sorry I don't agree. Gas is a functional term that is almost universally recognized. Newcomers hang onto the term "gas" because it is immediately obvious that it is a consumption fee tied to some work.

Specialized insider terminology is counter-productive. "Mana" is like gold (gasp) or karma or pixie dust. Like Olympic Rewards and early beneficiaries of ether payouts. Somehow, some early participants received big payouts and most of us did not. Something God decided. A sore point.

As that Deloitte fellow at Devcon1 said: "Language is important and perception is important." https://twitter.com/hughlang/status/664887464696221696

Can we put this to a vote? I can rant about this forever.

[rfikki]

My choice is to leave it as "gas" but, possible alternative choices could be: Petro, Energy, Toll

[taoeffect]

"mana" may end up being shorted to the single-syllable, three-letter "MAN", which could result in accusations of gender bias...

That doesn't make any sense. Not an argument. Vitalik proposed mana, not "MAN".

i also agree with @romanman . i'm all for sci-fi references but "mana" just makes me think of sad 13-year-olds playing WoW in their pyjamas.

If ya'll have a problem with mana we can always go with stamina points.

[taoeffect]

"Listen, the reason you're having trouble with your bingo dapp is you're out of mana. See, um, mana is..."

😆 oh man that is reason alone to do this. That is what I call a bright future.

[o0ragman0o]

Not a gamer so didn't know 'mana' had been appropriated by them...

This naming really irks me because of it's religious origin. 'Mana' of course was the food that biblical god Jehovah/Yahweh dropped on the ground every morning to the ancient Hebrew's to keep them alive for 40 years in the desert (or a least until they complained).

'Mana' == "What is it?" as they'd never seen it before.

It came with rules...

1. Mana will be provided on Sunday to Friday.
2. Will turn to worms if not consumed on the same day as provided.
3. Manner will not turn to worms on the Sabbath (Saturday).
4. Collect double rations on Fridays as Sabbath must be kept holy and if you work I will likely kill you.

So unless you want a religious blockchain that takes Saturdays off, and where unused gas turns to worms the next day, I think calling 'gas' 'Mana' is a very bad idea.

I personally would prefer 'fuel' as it's a far more generic concept than the American colloquialism 'gas' (when everyone else calls it petrol or alike.)

So please, keep the blockchain agnostic.

[JeffreyBPetersen]

@o0ragman0o fuel has the added bonus of being largely synonymous with gas so as to not confuse people with the name change.

[LefterisJP]

And if gamers need gaming references for the term Gas ...
Vespene Gas

[axic]

As others have mentioned it here or on reddit, mana too much feels like a game or a nerd thing. If it really needs to be changed, why not try to stick to computer science terminology, with something like cycle (from cycle count)? Well, probably not cycle itself, but something relevant :)

I do like gas however. Despite using PoS instead of PoW, computing happens anyway and that consumes energy.

[PeterBorah]

@o0ragman0o, that's "manna" with two "n"s. Mana is a term originally from Polynesia, and now used by gamers.

[mwilcoxnz]

I'm on the fence. Like others I agree it is associated to gaming, but I think it can fit nicely into the rest of the Ether branding and get past that. Most people involved with ethereum are probably not the best sample as most of us associate it more heavily with games than the actual meaning behind the term. Gas does make sense in a PoW world but I think mana does have a more positive connotation especially in a PoS world. Long term I think it would work. One thing to remember is that ether is the main user-facing token and gas / mana is more developer oriented.

Re @PeterBorah's thoughts on contracts, I think agents are too nerdy / technical compared to contracts, much more so than gas / mana. With contracts there's a very clear link between the name and function of the thing, whereas the tradeoff between the more functional name of 'gas' and the more idealistic name of 'mana' is easier to make as gas isn't so easily paired with the functionality in the first place.

[taoeffect]

Long term I think it would work. One thing to remember is that ether is the main user-facing token and gas / mana is more developer oriented.

👍

This will be a developer facing thing, not a user-facing thing. Most people will never be exposed to it, so "branding" concerns are mostly unfounded, IMO. The devs, on the other hand, get to have all the fun. 😄

[tymat]

[ghost]

This is such a terrible, alienating and manbaby-centric proposal that I honestly think Vitalik may be developmentally disabled or an elaborate troll

[etherReal]

@tymat LOL
@alexvandesande - Yes to gas is not a unit of measurement.
with Lux you get to talk about lumens which is a unit of measurement.
I agree that this is not a "User facing" issue but if they look under the hood (which many many will if the media conversation about Bitcoin is anything to go by) then it would be nice to find a metaphor there that was less "dirty" than Gas.
If you ever wanted to make lux consumption a UI feature A Ðapp could show off the Lux consumption with a simple scale from candle to star or whatever. I don't think there is as easy an icon for gas unless you have a miles per gallon scale or something.

[robertandrewsmith]

I think we still have a tendency to describe ether as a crypto fuel, not a store of value. And although it could be both, stating that we're sending some object, "gas" which is ether confounds the problem. Ultimately, gas is an object collected as a fee. However, the transformative ability of state, and dynamic notion of code execution is the core functionality of the Ethereum protocol. So the term ought to be more accurately descriptive.

Fuel is a good word, because like "refilling", we can "refuel" or effectively "fuel" our contracts. I'm also fine more generically terming ether gas as "power". You can power your contract with ether. Therefore send ether power.

Anyway this is pedagogy. Ether is gas. But gas is not ether. Gas is fuel and gas is power. Imagine branding "Powered by Ethereum", "Fueled by Ethereum", "Ether: Power for Smart Contracts", Ether: Fuel for Smart Contracts".

Now compare: "Ether: Gas for Smart Contracts"? "Ether: Petrol for Smart Contracts"? "Ether: CO2 for Smart Contracts" "Ether: Biofuel for Smart Contracts", "Ether: Lux for Smart contracts", "Ether: Mana for Smart Contracts"

"Fuel" and "Power" is infinitely a better term.

[aakilfernandes]

The real problem with gas, is that it's not understood as a real unit. You don't put 10 gas on your car, you put 10 liters of gas on your car. The idea of measuring gas in gas units is rather confusing to the user.

👍 @alexvandesande

This is similar to what tripped me up when learning about gas.

[Phistr90]

👎 Are you sponsered by Magic the Gathering? First the Ethereum Logo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zendikar

Now rename Gas to Mana... :D

[etherReal]

@Phistr90 so if we follow the algorithm gas should be called auaw <--(supposed to be the word mana inverted )

[twigwam]

I bel

[coder5876]

Opposed to this. I think Gas is a good, neutral term and perfectly describes its use.

[skmgoldin]

I like gas over mana.

[ethers]

Agree with most of the reasons for Gas. It's much clearer than alternatives like mana or lux. When should this EIP get closed? ;)

[bobsummerwill]

Please no.

[hughlang]

Also no.

Yes, Ethereum is special, but it does not need a special lingo that only insiders might enjoy, but is otherwise counterproductive.

The term "gas" has utility value in the same way that something has value because of its usefulness. Hence the metaphor: if Bitcoin is like gold, then Ethereum is more like oil/gas. Maybe not perfect, but still has some meaning.

Who can make the call to close this issue?

[obscuren]

Done

[vokkantthakkar]

Can we reconsider this?

[cryptofelon]

Requesting reconsideration.

[0xfoobar]

hello, ESG is very important to me, I would never use any petroleum products (except for my iPhone and fast food microplastics), I have glued myself to the Ethereum mempool in protest until the name for gas is changed to mana

[d347h-eth]

It's time.

[LefterisJP]

+42

[iFrostizz]

lgtm

[Pandapip1]

If any of you would like to make this an EIP, please open a thread on FEM.

[Ceazor]

I can just imagine the mana bars and mana potions (gas rebates)

[s1dedoteth]

It is worth noting that the term "gas" in Ethereum is already well-established, and changing it to "mana" could cause further confusion among those already familiar with the Ethereum network. Additionally, "gas" is a term used in other blockchain networks and in computer science more generally, so changing it to "mana" within the context of Ethereum would not be in line with the broader usage of the term.

[intldds]

"mana" is such an elegant/brilliant name, let's go

[pcaversaccio]

Ok, I did it :-D - the FEM link: https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/rename-gas-to-mana/13570.

[hydrogenbond007]

Sounds good to me too!

[Pandapip1]

Since there's now a discussion link on FEM, I'm going to lock this issue.