Format for departure/arrival times

[Skippern]

My local company Expresso Lorenzutti have made time tables available in PDF format. I understand it might be difficult to accommodate all forms of publishing time tables, and have therefor started to write a scraper for this. I would like to save it in a simple, common format, that osm2gtfs can read directly. One easy solution would be to save it as JSON. If you have any suggestions to formats I am open.

[pantierra]

This is great. Currently we don't have defined a standard format. It is heavily created to the issue #33. And on the next things to do.

So, I'd be very happy to define together with you a suitable structure.

What is your take on it? The full schedule for each stop as a json object? Or are you thinking about some simplification here? The use cases we applied until now the osm2gtfs script were based on frequencies or starting time on certain stops or stations. And a way to define either the time for the whole itinery or the individual distance between stops.

All approaches can be valid and useful and we probably want to be flexible on this side and support different structures.

[Skippern]

The tables I have use starting times on first point/station, circular routes might show a departure time for a mid-point.

I was thinking of creating a single JSON for each start point/route pair, with 3 lists in them, week days, Saturdays, Sundays.

That way osm2gtfs would identify departure from origin in the same way as I understand it harvests from the website in Florianopolis.

[pantierra]

Yes, this is the Florianopolis approach and is fine. Lets think aboit how would look like, a suitable structure.

[grote]

This sounds indeed like the same information that is available for Florianopolis. There, I am using a JSON file from the transport company. However, I do not recommend to copy that JSON structure entirely.

Their basic structure however could work: List of routes/lines. Each route/line is a dictionary of various information such as name, schedule and schedule exceptions.

I was thinking of creating a single JSON for each start point/route pair, with 3 lists in them, week days, Saturdays, Sundays.

That is already better than the JSON above, but maybe it would be sufficient to to create one json per route/line as there is information that apply to the line/route as a whole like schedule exceptions for holidays or other meta information you might want to include.

[Skippern]

A handwritten suggestion based on 039

{
   "ref": "039",
   "origin": "Setiba",
   "destination": "Trevo BR101",
   "weekdays": [ "05:48", "06:55", "08:49", "10:18", "11:48", "15:45" ],
   "saturdays": [ "05:50", "06:48", "08:48", "09:48", "12:48", "15:48" ],
   "sundays": [ ],
}

This is just a quick'n'dirty idea

[grote]

That is a good start.

Did you check already the OpenStreetMap data quality? osm2gtfs needs to be able to match route relations with the proper JSON file and it needs to match origin/destination to the stops nodes in that relation.

Where the data quality is lacking, I suggest to add missing data directly into OpenStreetMap.

[Skippern]

The JSON (and scraper of course), must also be able to handle route variations, such as route 022 departure from Village do Sol on weekdays 12:00 IF, with footnote Via IFES, that obviously must be added as a separate relation (ref=022IF?)

[Skippern]

@grote I am constantly trying to improve the data quality, I am not completely satisfied with the data, and aim to make it compatible with osm2gtfs. I have on a few instances checked how things are done in Floripa to make it as compatible as possible. Being able to run tests will point me to remaining issues in the data model.

[grote]

Florianopolis has also routes with variations. For now, I am just ignoring them. So it would be could if those would be handled as well.

Usually, the variations have a different route (trajectory, take different streets), so need a different relation in OpenStreetMap as well, I guess.

[Skippern]

Lets focus on the main routes, and look into variations after we have solved the issues on main routes.

[jamescr]

@Skippern In my case I created a json file for the Incofer time tables. In the json I represented the stop time for all stops of every route (because I had the data), but if there is a stop that is not done on any trip, i could just ignore it using a "-" in the schedule (horarios) matrix.

[Skippern]

@jamescr I can base my format on your file, but I'll rather use english keywords. My data set doesn't give departure times on secondary stations, just start of route.

Making a single JSON for the entire network is definitely the simplest in terms of programming the scraper, but for large networks might be memory consuming and slow.

[jamescr]

I can base my format on your file, but I'll rather use english keywords. My data set doesn't
give departure times on secondary stations, just start of route.

Using English keywords will be a very nice change that will make the format more usable. I think implementing the change for incofer data and the trips creator will make it useful for your case.

Making a single JSON for the entire network is definitely the simplest in terms of programming the
scraper, but for large networks might be memory consuming and slow.

Might be. Do you have a suggestion?

[grote]

Making a single JSON for the entire network is definitely the simplest in terms of programming the scraper, but for large networks might be memory consuming and slow.

If speed is your only concern here, keep in mind that osm2gtfs needs to fetch up to date versions of those files. Fetching a file from the network is way slower when parsing it locally.

[Skippern]

@grote My concern is not so much with the time it will take to generate the data, this will only be done on an infrequent basis, i.e. once every month. My concern is rather that I do not have a stable server to run on, and multiple other operations that hog resources, so a slower process is more prone to complications.

By generating each route as a different file, I can test if I have the JSON in question, and skip the scraping, same way osm2gtfs could have an amend function, to continue where it was interrupted.

[Skippern]

I am about to make the JSON file now (finally managed to scrape all the time ables without errors), and will create a file partly based on @jamescr's example. I'll make a git repo and post the scraper and JSON's later today or tomorrow.

[grote]

Great news! If you want us to review the json structure before, please feel free to post an example!

[Skippern]

Current format of the JSON object:

• WD is an alias for weekdays, Mo-Fr

{'operator': 'Expresso Lorenzutti',
 'source': 'http://www.expressolorenzutti.com.br/horarios/',
 'updated': '2017-03-29',
 'routes': {u'005': [{'to': u'OLARIA', 
'sa': [u'15:30', u'17:10', u'18:25'], 
'WD': [u'15:30', u'17:10', u'18:25'], 
'from': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'su': []},
 {'to': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA',
 'sa': [],
 'WD': [], 
'from': u'OLARIA',
 'su': []}], 
u'038': [{'to': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'sa': [], 
'WD': [u'09:16', u'09:28', u'16:24'], 
'from': u'TREVO DE SETIBA',
 'su': []}, 
{'to': u'TREVO DE SETIBA', 
'sa': [], 
'WD': [u'06:30', u'08:00', u'10:03', u'14:40', u'19:25'], 
'from': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'su': []}],
 u'045': [{'to': u'IPIRANGA', 
'sa': [],
 'WD': [], 
'from': u'PATURA', 
'su': []},
 {'to': u'PATURA', 
'sa': [u'08:40', u'10:25', u'13:40', u'15:25', u'17:20', u'19:15'], 
'WD': [u'08:40', u'10:25', u'13:40', u'15:25', u'17:20', u'19:15'], 
'from': u'IPIRANGA',
 'su': []}],
 u'004': [{'to': u'OLARIA', 'sa': [u'05:55', u'12:20', u'06:35', u'13:10', u'07:25', u'13:55', u'08:20', u'14:45', u'09:20', u'16:20'], 
'WD': [u'05:55', u'12:20', u'06:35', u'13:10', u'07:25', u'13:55', u'08:20', u'14:45', u'09:20', u'16:20'], 
'from': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'su': [u'06:10', u'13:40', u'21:45', u'07:05', u'14:50', u'08:00', u'15:45', u'09:25', u'16:35', u'10:50', u'17:30']},
 {'to': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'sa': [u'10:45', u'19:40', u'11:40', u'05:20', u'12:15', u'17:47', u'06:25', u'12:55', u'18:37', u'07:05', u'13:45', u'19:02', u'07:55', u'14:30', u'20:10', u'08:55', u'15:20', u'09:50', u'16:07', u'11:20', u'16:55'], 
'WD': [u'10:45', u'19:40', u'11:40', u'05:20', u'12:15', u'17:47', u'06:25', u'12:55', u'18:37', u'07:05', u'13:45', u'19:02', u'07:55', u'14:30', u'20:10', u'08:55', u'15:20', u'09:50', u'16:07', u'11:20', u'16:55'], 
'from': u'OLARIA',
 'su': [u'11:45', u'18:45', u'12:55', u'20:30', u'05:40', u'13:25', u'20:55', u'06:35', u'14:10', u'22:05', u'07:30', u'15:20', u'08:25', u'16:10', u'09:55', u'17:05', u'11:20', u'18:00', u'12:15', u'19:15']}], 
u'010': [{'to': u'IPIRANGA', 
'sa': [u'05:00', u'13:48', u'20:20', u'06:10', u'14:32', u'22:05', u'07:10', u'15:16', u'08:40', u'16:22', u'11:00', u'17:50'], 
'WD': [u'05:00', u'13:48', u'20:20', u'06:10', u'14:32', u'22:05', u'07:10', u'15:16', u'08:40', u'16:22', u'11:00', u'17:50'], 
'from': u'JABARAI', 
'su': [u'21:00 M']}, 
{'to': u'JABARAI', 
'sa': [u'11:55', u'18:40', u'13:04', u'19:25', u'05:35', u'14:02', u'21:15', u'06:50', u'14:44', u'22:00', u'08:00', u'15:28', u'10:30', u'17:18', u'11:40', u'18:06', u'12:00', u'18:46', u'12:50', u'19:40'], 
'WD': [u'11:55', u'18:40', u'13:04', u'05:35', u'14:02', u'19:25', u'21:15', u'06:50', u'14:44', u'22:00', u'08:00', u'15:28', u'10:30', u'17:18', u'11:40', u'18:06', u'12:00', u'18:46', u'12:50', u'19:40'], 
'from': u'IPIRANGA', 
'su': [u'21:35 M']}], 
u'011': [{'to': u'IPIRANGA', 
'sa': [u'06:30', u'07:35', u'08:20', u'09:40', u'17:10'], 
'WD': [u'06:30', u'07:35', u'08:20', u'09:40', u'17:10'], 
'from': u'JABARAI', 
'su': [u'05:10', u'16:05', u'06:30', u'17:45', u'08:10', u'19:25', u'09:50', u'19:50', u'10:50', u'06:30']}, 
{'to': u'JABARAI',
 'sa': [u'21:20', u'07:25', u'16:12'], 
'WD': [u'21:20', u'07:25', u'16:12'], 
'from': u'IPIRANGA',
 'su': [u'12:25', u'14:20', u'05:40', u'18:40', u'07:20', u'21:15', u'09:00', u'22:00', u'11:40', u'13:15', u'15:15', u'16:55']}], 
u'012': [{'to': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'sa': [u'05:25', u'12:20', u'16:44', u'06:50', u'12:42', u'17:28', u'07:25', u'13:26', u'19:00', u'07:55', u'14:10', u'19:50', u'09:10', u'14:54', u'21:45'], 
'WD': [u'05:25', u'12:20', u'16:44', u'06:50', u'12:42', u'17:28', u'07:25', u'13:26', u'19:00', u'07:55', u'14:10', u'19:50', u'09:10', u'14:54', u'21:45'], 
'from': u'JABARAI', 
'su': [u'05:50', u'13:35', u'22:10', u'07:00', u'14:50', u'07:30', u'15:20', u'08:30', u'16:30', u'09:00', u'17:00']},
 {'to': u'JABARAI', 
'sa': [u'10:20', u'15:38', u'11:30', u'16:00', u'06:00', u'12:20', u'16:56', u'07:40', u'13:20', u'17:40', u'08:40', u'13:40', u'18:24', u'09:20', u'14:22', u'20:40', u'10:15', u'15:06', u'21:40', u'11:00', u'15:50', u'22:30', u'11:20', u'16:34'], 
'WD': [u'10:20', u'15:38', u'11:30', u'06:00', u'12:20', u'16:00', u'16:56', u'07:40', u'13:20', u'17:40', u'08:40', u'13:40', u'18:24', u'09:20', u'14:22', u'20:40', u'10:15', u'15:06', u'21:40', u'11:00', u'15:50', u'22:30', u'11:20', u'16:34'], 
'from': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'su': [u'11:20', u'18:10', u'13:00', u'18:40', u'06:25', u'13:40', u'19:20', u'07:40', u'14:15', u'08:10', u'15:30', u'10:10', u'16:00', u'10:40', u'17:10', u'12:00', u'17:40', u'12:20', u'18:50']}], 
u'013': [{'to': u'SANTA MARGARIDA', 
'sa': [], 'WD': [u'05:50', u'18:12'], 
'from': u'JABARAI',
 'su': []},
 {'to': u'JABARAI', 
'sa': [], 
'WD': [u'06:25', u'19:08'], 
'from': u'SANTA MARGARIDA', 
'su': []}], 
u'014': [{'to': u'VARZEA NOVA', 
'sa': [u'07:15', u'16:30'], 
'WD': [u'07:15', u'16:30'], 
'from': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'sa': [u'08:05', u'17:15'], 
'WD': [u'08:05', u'17:15'], 
'from': u'VARZEA NOVA', 
'su': []}], 
u'015': [{'to': u'N. S .CONCEI\xc7\xc3O', 
'sa': [u'06:35', u'17:20', u'07:35', u'17:40', u'09:50', u'11:00', u'12:15', u'07:00', u'12:00', u'16:00'],
 'WD': [u'06:35', u'14:45', u'07:35', u'16:15', u'09:50', u'17:00', u'11:00', u'18:00', u'12:15', u'19:30'], 
'from': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'su': []},
 {'to': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'sa': [u'14:00', u'15:40', u'06:00', u'16:05', u'07:00', u'17:45', u'08:00', u'18:05', u'10:15', u'11:25', u'12:40', u'14:25', u'06:20', u'07:20', u'12:20', u'16:20'], 
'WD': [u'13:00', u'14:00', u'06:00', u'14:25', u'07:00', u'15:10', u'08:00', u'16:40', u'10:15', u'17:25 K', u'11:25', u'18:25', u'12:40', u'19:55', u'13:25'], 
'from': u'N. S .CONCEI\xc7\xc3O', 
'su': []}], 
u'033': [{'to': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'sa': [u'07:07'], 
'WD': [u'07:16'], 
'from': u'SETIBA', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'SETIBA', 
'sa': [u'08:14', u'10:50'], 
'WD': [u'10:34', u'17:20'], 
'from': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'su': []}], 
u'018': [{'to': u'OLARIA', 
'sa': [u'15:30', u'17:10', u'18:25'], 
'WD': [u'15:30', u'17:10', u'18:25'], 
'from': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'su': []},
 {'to': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'sa': [],
 'WD': [], 
'from': u'OLARIA', 
'su': []}], 
u'019': [{'to': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'sa': [u'05:45', u'13:40', u'19:30', u'06:45', u'13:55', u'19:55', u'08:55', u'14:45', u'20:20', u'09:15', u'16:25', u'20:45', u'11:05', u'16:45', u'21:35', u'09:20', u'11:20', u'13:20', u'14:20'], 
'WD': [u'05:45', u'13:10', u'18:40', u'06:45', u'13:55', u'21:05', u'08:15', u'15:25', u'08:55', u'15:40', u'09:15', u'16:10'], 
'from': u'S\xc3O GABRIEL', 
'su': [u'08:20', u'18:20']},
 {'to': u'S\xc3O GABRIEL', 
'sa': [u'12:25', u'17:25', u'13:10', u'18:45', u'06:50', u'14:20', u'19:35', u'07:50', u'14:40', u'20:00', u'08:50', u'15:20', u'21:15', u'12:00', u'17:00', u'21:40', u'12:30', u'17:45', u'22:30', u'13:15', u'18:20', u'13:30', u'18:45', u'15:20', u'17:20', u'11:00', u'13:00', u'14:00', u'15:00', u'17:00'], 
'WD': [u'11:05', u'17:10', u'12:05', u'06:50', u'14:15', u'17:55', u'18:50', u'07:50', u'15:15', u'20:45', u'08:50', u'16:00', u'21:35', u'09:10', u'16:30', u'12:00', u'17:30', u'12:30', u'17:45', u'13:30', u'18:15'],
 'from': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'su': [u'08:00', u'18:00', u'09:00', u'19:00']}], 
u'030': [{'to': u'KUBITSCHEK', 
'sa': [u'05:15', u'10:03', u'13:30', u'17:53', u'06:43', u'10:33', u'14:03', u'19:05', u'07:27', u'11:05', u'14:53', u'19:48', u'08:07', u'11:37', u'15:23', u'20:35', u'08:23', u'12:09', u'16:05', u'21:20'], 
'WD': [u'05:14', u'09:00', u'13:32', u'17:44', u'06:36', u'09:30', u'14:12', u'18:53', u'06:52', u'09:46', u'14:42', u'19:38', u'07:32', u'10:02', u'15:22', u'20:23', u'07:56', u'10:22', u'15:52', u'21:08'], 
'from': u'SETIBA', 
'su': [u'05:35', u'12:55', u'19:55', u'06:55', u'13:55', u'20:55', u'07:55', u'14:55', u'21:55', u'08:55', u'15:55', u'09:55', u'16:55']},
 {'to': u'SETIBA', 
'sa': [u'09:03', u'12:50', u'16:41', u'22:05', u'09:43', u'13:03', u'17:17', u'05:47', u'10:30', u'13:50', u'17:28', u'21:55', u'06:57', u'11:20', u'14:10', u'18:04', u'22:40', u'07:30', u'11:52', u'14:35', u'18:40', u'08:14', u'12:24', u'14:50', u'19:16', u'08:54', u'12:56', u'15:30', u'19:52', u'09:10', u'13:00', u'16:10', u'20:30', u'09:50', u'13:30', u'16:52', u'21:15'], 
'WD': [u'08:20', u'10:52', u'16:24', u'21:47', u'08:36', u'13:16', u'17:20', u'05:47', u'08:20', u'11:10', u'15:00', u'18:32', u'06:20', u'08:44', u'12:10 IF', u'15:30', u'19:03', u'06:56', u'09:08', u'12:40', u'16:10', u'20:18', u'07:24', u'09:24', u'13:20', u'16:40', u'21:00', u'07:40', u'09:48', u'13:40', u'17:12', u'21:45 IF', u'07:48', u'10:18', u'14:04', u'17:36', u'22:29', u'08:12', u'10:50', u'14:20', u'18:08 IF', u'23:15'], 
'from': u'KUBITSCHEK',
 'su': [u'10:55', u'17:55', u'11:55', u'18:55', u'06:05', u'13:35', u'20:30', u'07:35', u'14:35', u'21:30', u'08:35', u'15:35', u'22:25', u'09:35', u'16:35', u'10:35', u'17:35', u'11:35', u'18:35', u'12:35', u'19:30']}], 
u'031': [{'to': u'OLARIA', 
'sa': [u'05:00', u'07:18', u'08:50', u'10:48', u'12:00', u'13:33', u'15:10', u'17:00', u'19:00', u'21:40', u'05:40', u'07:26', u'09:00', u'10:56', u'12:08', u'13:50', u'15:20', u'17:12', u'19:25', u'21:55', u'05:50', u'07:42', u'09:30', u'11:04', u'12:24', u'14:00', u'15:40', u'17:36', u'19:40', u'22:25', u'06:00', u'07:58', u'09:40', u'11:20', u'12:32', u'14:20', u'15:50', u'17:48', u'20:10', u'06:30', u'08:06', u'10:00', u'11:28', u'12:40', u'14:30', u'16:00', u'18:12', u'20:25'], 
'WD': [u'05:00', u'07:20', u'09:00', u'11:20', u'13:08', u'15:00', u'16:40', u'18:00', u'21:00', u'05:40', u'07:30', u'09:46', u'11:40', u'13:16', u'15:10', u'16:48', u'18:12', u'21:30', u'05:50', u'07:48', u'10:02', u'11:50', u'13:32', u'15:20', u'17:04', u'19:15', u'21:42 IF', u'06:00', u'08:12', u'10:20', u'12:00', u'13:50', u'15:40', u'17:12', u'19:30', u'22:06', u'06:28', u'08:20', u'10:40', u'12:10', u'14:10', u'15:50', u'17:20', u'20:00', u'22:18'],
 'from': u'TREVO SETIBA', 
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 {'to': u'TREVO SETIBA', 
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'su': [u'04:50', u'11:30', u'17:20 E', u'05:35', u'12:10', u'18:25', u'06:05', u'13:00', u'19:30 E', u'07:10', u'14:00 E', u'21:10', u'07:45', u'14:35', u'22:10']}, 
{'to': u'CONDADOS', 
'sa': [u'11:15', u'18:10', u'12:05 E', u'18:25', u'05:30', u'12:55 B', u'20:40', u'06:20 B', u'14:15', u'07:05', u'15:30', u'08:00', u'16:00 E', u'10:00', u'16:50', u'10:55 E', u'17:25', u'12:05', u'18:10'], 
'WD': [u'11:15', u'18:10', u'12:05 E', u'18:25', u'05:30', u'12:55 B', u'20:40', u'06:20 B', u'14:15', u'07:05', u'15:30', u'08:00', u'16:00 E', u'10:00', u'16:50', u'10:55 E', u'17:25', u'12:05', u'18:10'], 
'from': u'TREVO DA BR-101', 
'su': [u'10:05', u'15:40', u'10:25 E', u'16:25 E', u'05:30', u'12:15', u'18:35 E', u'06:10', u'13:00 E', u'20:20', u'07:00', u'13:55', u'21:10', u'08:05', u'14:50', u'09:40 E', u'15:35 E', u'10:50', u'16:30 E', u'11:15', u'17:20']}], 
u'028': [{'to': u'MEAIPE', 
'sa': [u'13:45'], 
'WD': [u'13:45'], 
'from': u'TREVO DA BR 101', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'TREVO DA BR 101', 
'sa': [u'14:55', u'15:50'],
 'WD': [u'14:55', u'15:50'],
 'from': u'MEAIPE', 
'su': []}], 
u'041': [{'to': u'TREVO DA BR101', 
'sa': [], 
'WD': [u'14:25'], 
'from': u'TREVO DE SETIBA',
 'su': []}, 
{'to': u'TREVO DE SETIBA',
 'sa': [], 
'WD': [], 
'from': u'TREVO DA BR101',
 'su': []}], 
u'040': [{'to': u'KUBITSCHEK',
 'sa': [u'06:13', u'07:03'], 
'WD': [u'06:12 IF', u'07:00', u'11:22', u'12:32', u'12:52'], 
'from': u'TREVO DE SETIBA', 
'su': []},
 {'to': u'TREVO DE SETIBA', 
'sa': [u'07:50'], 
'WD': [u'16:48', u'11:40', u'18:16 IF'],
 'from': u'KUBITSCHEK',
 'su': []}], 
u'025': [{'to': u'IPIRANGA', 
'sa': [u'05:30', u'08:35', u'13:25', u'19:05', u'06:15', u'09:35', u'14:10', u'21:10', u'06:30', u'09:55', u'15:05', u'07:15', u'10:45', u'15:25', u'07:30', u'11:45', u'15:45'], 
'WD': [u'05:30', u'09:35', u'14:40', u'18:55', u'06:15', u'09:55', u'14:55', u'19:15', u'06:30', u'10:45', u'15:55', u'19:35', u'07:15', u'11:45', u'16:25', u'20:20', u'07:30', u'12:55', u'16:55', u'20:40'], 
'from': u'BELA VISTA',
 'su': [u'05:50', u'13:50', u'20:00', u'06:50', u'14:50', u'20:30', u'07:50', u'15:50', u'21:50', u'08:50', u'16:50', u'22:20', u'09:50', u'17:45']}, 
{'to': u'BELA VISTA', 
'sa': [u'07:45', u'12:05', u'17:05', u'08:15', u'12:55', u'18:25', u'06:20', u'10:20', u'15:00', u'20:50', u'07:05', u'10:40', u'16:00', u'22:05', u'07:20', u'11:20', u'16:20', u'08:10', u'11:40', u'16:40', u'08:30', u'12:45', u'18:00', u'09:10', u'13:00', u'19:10', u'09:30', u'13:45', u'20:25'], 
'WD': [u'07:45', u'13:40', u'17:40', u'21:30', u'08:35', u'06:20', u'10:40', u'14:10', u'15:00', u'18:10', u'19:10', u'21:55', u'07:05', u'11:20', u'15:30', u'19:55', u'07:20', u'11:40', u'15:45', u'20:20', u'08:10', u'12:45', u'16:45', u'21:10', u'08:30', u'13:15', u'17:15', u'22:00', u'09:30', u'13:45', u'17:45', u'22:25', u'10:20', u'14:30', u'18:30'], 
'from': u'IPIRANGA', 
'su': [u'11:50', u'18:55', u'12:50', u'19:20', u'06:30', u'14:30', u'21:30', u'07:30', u'15:30', u'22:00', u'08:30', u'16:30', u'09:30', u'17:25', u'11:30', u'18:30', u'12:30', u'19:35', u'13:30', u'20:10']}], 
u'058': [{'to': u'MEAIPE', 
'sa': [u'05:35', u'11:15 O', u'17:25', u'06:15 E/O', u'11:52', u'19:22', u'06:40', u'12:15 E', u'21:45 E', u'07:35', u'13:05 O', u'08:40 E', u'14:15'], 
'WD': [u'05:35', u'11:15 O', u'17:25', u'06:15 E/O', u'11:52', u'19:22', u'06:40', u'12:15 E', u'21:45 E', u'07:35', u'13:05 O', u'08:40 E', u'14:15'], 
'from': u'SETIBA', 
'su': [u'06:38', u'12:25', u'17:08 E', u'07:25 E', u'13:08', u'18:00', u'08:07', u'13:55', u'18:25', u'08:50', u'14:40', u'19:30', u'06:07', u'11:38', u'16:25', u'22:50']}, 
{'to': u'SETIBA', 
'sa': [u'09:04', u'15:50', u'09:55', u'16:43', u'04:45', u'11:00', u'22:00', u'05:50', u'11:50', u'06:50', u'13:05', u'07:33 E/O', u'13:35 E', u'07:56', u'14:35 O', u'09:50 E', u'15:35', u'10:05', u'16:10'], 
'WD': [u'09:04', u'15:50', u'09:55', u'04:45', u'16:43', u'11:00', u'22:00', u'05:50', u'11:50', u'06:50', u'13:05', u'07:33 E/O', u'13:35 E', u'07:56', u'14:35 O', u'09:50 E', u'15:35', u'10:05', u'16:10'], 
'from': u'MEAIPE', 
'su': [u'10:25', u'15:08', u'21:10', u'11:08', u'15:55', u'21:50', u'05:55', u'11:15', u'16:15', u'22:00', u'06:20', u'12:00', u'17:00', u'22:40', u'07:05', u'12:40', u'17:20', u'07:35', u'13:25', u'08:15 E', u'14:15', u'19:00', u'09:10', u'14:50', u'19:35', u'09:35', u'15:30', u'21:10']}], 
u'024': [{'to': u'CAMURUGI', 
'sa': [u'06:30', u'16:25', u'07:45', u'17:40', u'09:00', u'19:00', u'11:20', u'21:30', u'12:35', u'22:30'], 
'WD': [u'06:30', u'16:25', u'07:45', u'17:40', u'09:00', u'19:00', u'11:20', u'21:30', u'12:35', u'22:30'], 
'from': u'IPIRANGA', 
'su': [u'06:30', u'16:30', u'07:45', u'17:40', u'09:00', u'18:50', u'11:15', u'21:30', u'12:30', u'22:20']}, 
{'to': u'IPIRANGA', 
'sa': [u'13:50', u'15:05', u'06:00', u'15:45', u'07:15', u'17:05', u'08:30', u'18:15', u'09:45', u'19:40', u'11:50', u'22:00', u'13:15', u'14:35'],
 'WD': [u'13:50', u'15:05', u'06:00', u'15:45', u'07:15', u'17:05', u'08:30', u'18:15', u'09:45', u'19:40', u'11:50', u'22:00', u'13:15', u'14:35'],
 'from': u'CAMURUGI', 
'su': [u'13:45', u'15:15', u'06:00', u'16:00', u'07:15', u'17:15', u'08:30', u'18:30', u'09:45', u'19:40', u'12:00', u'22:00', u'13:15', u'14:30']}], 
u'027': [{'to': u'KUBITSCHEK/OLARIA',
 'sa': [u'05:10', u'13:50', u'07:35', u'14:00', u'08:35', u'14:30', u'09:00', u'15:10', u'09:15', u'15:45'], 
'WD': [u'05:10', u'13:50', u'07:35', u'14:00', u'08:35', u'14:30', u'09:00', u'15:10', u'09:15', u'15:45'], 
'from': u'TREVO BR 101', 
'su': [u'07:15', u'13:00', u'19:55', u'08:15', u'14:00', u'20:55', u'09:10', u'15:00', u'21:50', u'10:00', u'16:00', u'10:10', u'17:05']}, 
{'to': u'TREVO BR 101',
 'sa': [u'09:50', u'21:10', u'11:25', u'05:35', u'13:50', u'06:50', u'14:30', u'08:00', u'15:05', u'08:35', u'21:10', u'09:25', u'10:50', u'13:30'],
 'WD': [u'09:50', u'21:10', u'11:25', u'05:35', u'13:50', u'06:50', u'14:30', u'08:00', u'15:05', u'08:35', u'21:10', u'09:25', u'10:50', u'13:30'],
 'from': u'KUBITSCHEK/OLARIA', 
'su': [u'10:55', u'18:05', u'12:00', u'19:30', u'07:45', u'14:30', u'08:40', u'15:30', u'09:40', u'16:30', u'10:25', u'17:30', u'11:40', u'18:30', u'12:30', u'20:25', u'13:30', u'21:10']}], 
u'039': [{'to': u'TREVO BR101', 
'sa': [u'05:50', u'06:48', u'08:48', u'09:48', u'12:48'], 
'WD': [u'05:48', u'06:55', u'08:49', u'10:18', u'11:48'], 
'from': u'SETIBA', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'SETIBA', 
'sa': [u'15:48', u'06:30', u'07:55', u'09:55', u'10:55', u'13:55', u'16:55'], 
'WD': [u'15:45', u'06:30', u'08:15', u'10:15', u'11:20', u'13:10', u'16:45'], 
'from': u'TREVO BR101',
 'su': []}], 
u'054': [{'to': u'BAIA NOVA', 
'sa': [u'14:30'], 
'WD': [u'14:30'], 
'from': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'su': [u'16:15']}, 
{'to': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA',
 'sa': [u'05:55', u'16:15'], 
'WD': [u'05:55', u'16:15'],
 'from': u'BAIA NOVA', 
'su': []}], 
u'007': [{'to': u'PORTO GRANDE', 
'sa': [u'08:15', u'17:45', u'09:25', u'18:40', u'11:40', u'22:05', u'12:40', u'14:10'], 
'WD': [u'08:15', u'17:45', u'09:25', u'18:40', u'11:40', u'22:05', u'12:40', u'14:10'], 
'from': u'PORTAL CLUB',
 'su': [u'06:00', u'09:55', u'12:50', u'14:50', u'16:45']},
 {'to': u'PORTAL CLUB', 
'sa': [u'15:10', u'16:20', u'06:22', u'15:15', u'07:16', u'16:32', u'08:28', u'18:55', u'09:25', u'20:45', u'10:30', u'12:40', u'13:47'],
 'WD': [u'15:10', u'16:20', u'06:22', u'15:15', u'07:16', u'16:32', u'08:28', u'18:55', u'09:25', u'20:45', u'10:30', u'12:40', u'13:47'],
 'from': u'PORTO GRANDE',
 'su': [u'19:50', u'06:50', u'08:45', u'10:45', u'13:50', u'15:50', u'20:40']}], 
u'055': [{'to': u'RIO GRANDE', 
'sa': [u'12:15', u'18:10'], 
'WD': [u'12:15', u'18:10'], 
'from': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'PRA\xc7A DA VITORIA', 
'sa': [u'06:20', u'12:55', u'19:00'], 
'WD': [u'06:20', u'12:55', u'19:00'], 
'from': u'RIO GRANDE',
 'su': []}], 
u'006': [{'to': u'CONDADOS', 
'sa': [u'10:40'], 
'WD': [u'10:40'],
 'from': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'su': []}, 
{'to': u'JARDIM BOA VISTA', 
'sa': [u'08:51'], 
'WD': [u'08:51'], 
'from': u'CONDADOS', 
'su': []}]}, 
'network': 'PMG'}

[grote]

I tried to indent this for readability and the parser bailed out at the beginning already, because property names need to be enclosed in double quotes.

[Skippern]

Changing to double quotes now, but the bail out might also be due to mixing UTF strings with strings

[Skippern]

Double quotes in the code still give single quotes in the output, so it must be due to UTF strings (u"")

[Skippern]

JSON file output is found here, I have stored scraper and JSON in my repo this repo

[grote]

Some observations:

• If you want osm2gtfs match your routes properly with the ones from OSM, the exact name needs to be supplied to the route relation for from and to values.
• Schedule exceptions seem to be missing e.g. for public holidays
• I personally don't like the WD abbreviation. Maybe Mo-Fr is better?
• Does your JSON handle route variants already?
• I noticed that your times sometimes look like this 07:33 E/O. Whatever the E/O means, we should probably handle it differently if it is needed.

[Skippern]

Thanks

• I will make sure from and to values matches the ones posted
• Site doesn't post exceptions for public holidays, easter coming up, and nothing posted as of yet
• I was thinking WD as alias for Weekdays, and WE alias for Weekends, but following ISO standards with Mo-Fr and Sa-Su might probably be better
• Route variants are still not handled, I have two different scenarios for them, one is easy to handle (12:00 IF, where IF corresponds with variation), and the other one needs some deeper though (different background colour in background of cell in PDF file).
• 07:33 E/O is the most complicated exception, two exceptions (E and O) on same departure.

For now I think the best option is to ignore route exception by stripping anything after the time. Don't know if this is best done in the scraper or in osm2gtfs

[grote]

For now I think the best option is to ignore route exception by stripping anything after the time. Don't know if this is best done in the scraper or in osm2gtfs

I think we should handle exception through some special attributes or routes in the json structure, so I would remove everything behind the time with your scraper and then later bring it back in a different way.

[Skippern]

Ok, I'll try this and have a new version posted during the afternoon

[Skippern]

New version of the JSON file in Skippern/GV-scraper@0af7afc

• Changed WD to Mo-Fr
• Captured variations and dump them into different tables
• Blacklisting variations, this can be undone by changing a single variable

Still need to look into variations that escape my code. I cannot see in the code why these escape. Need further investigation on this. Mainly affects ref 057 and 058.

[grote]

Looks nice! I can imagine to migrate Floripa to the same format at some point, so we can both use the same code.

[Skippern]

I think I have figured out a way to handle exception, currently running the script, if it looks good I'll reorganise my repo and post it there.

Python module workalendar handles both fixed and moving holidays, but currently not including all countries, but since Brazil was in the list, I figured out a way to include the valid state and municipal holidays. I have posted an issue on nova workalendar/workalendar#187 to include all Brazilian state holidays at least.

[grote]

Awesome!

What you need to keep in mind for the exceptions is some definition about how the service is on this day. How will opsm2gtfs know the service will operate on the day of the exception?

[Skippern]

How I do it is a list of dates the line will not run, and than include the same list as service for a time table how it should run, you'll see when the script completes and I push to git

[Skippern]

The example with exception is found here. I still need to add a few checks to make sure routes that have no exceptions are handled correctly, but at least the JSON shows how I have thought about this. Is the ISO-date format acceptable, or should I use another format for the dates?

[grote]

No, ISO dates are great.

[AltNico]

@Skippern and the others: what's the status of this issue? Is there already a branch somewhere where someone started working on this? @mikolaiguetschow and I are interested in implementing this issue while adding a creator for a new town (mapanica/coordinacion#6).

[AltNico]

And if this is the format we want to have, maybe we can open an implementation issue with an abstract form of it to easify development (@grote like in repomaker) and mark this as an discussion issue. Sorry for double posting.

[Skippern]

I would say the format is implementation ready, feel free to use the Jason files for testing. I need to adjust two of the creator scripts as the source layouts have changed, but that will only affect updating.

…

Sent from my iPhone

On 30 Sep 2017, at 23:38, Nico Alt ***@***.***> wrote: And if this is the format we want to have, maybe we can open an implementation issue with an abstract form of it to easify development ***@***.*** like in repomaker) and mark this as an discussion issue. Sorry for double posting. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[pantierra]

Just for your information, I built today a basic script to convert the CSV we had from Managua to a timetable json file following the new json format discussed here. I hope this will allow the Managua support to happen soon and hopefully by relying exclusively on standard creators.

[pantierra]

Regarding the Timetable proposal here:

• There is some information, which is doubled in the configuration file and the timetable: start_date and end_date. These should be clearly live in one or another.
• The information on network and operator should come from OpenStreetMap, in my humble opinion, and not from the timetable.
• The source is nice, but never used.

[AltNico]

Thanks for your list, I agree that we should not have double information. As start and end date depends heavily on the timetable, this information should be removed from the configuration and only stored in _timetable.json_. network and operator should be removed from _timetable.json_ and only stored in OSM. Regarding source: would be nice to somehow store that in GTFS, but if that's not possible it's still worth the effort for knowing the source if you just have the timetable.json and for example would like to refresh the data. But it can be removed, I just got it from @Skippern's file.

[pantierra]

As start and end date depends heavily on the timetable, this information should be removed from the configuration and only stored in timetable.json.

This is a very tricky question. Depending on the perspective it can make sense to have it in the timetable.json or in the configuration file. And I'm not sure about where it should be. I can see arguments for both locations.

• The first case we treated here Florianopolis/Fenix is basically pulling a non-standard format directly from the city administration and the custom trip handler does all the magic. While I do think this timetable proposal is nice and very important to have defined (especially for the standard creators), but I don't think it should be the only format of input which we support.
• I also would not like to go back to the timetable to edit the dates, every time I create a new GTFS. Of course, in the best of possible worlds, it is quite attached to it. But in the real scenarios we are having, I guess it would cause a bit more trouble, than in the config file.

Just my two cents. I would be curious to know what others think about this. In my impression, we are still not seeing the whole picture here.

[Skippern]

In some instances, start_date and end_date can be gathered from the timetable source, but sometimes this data is not available, or available in arbitrary formats. "Until opening of the new road" will require human intervention, and therefor having an option of putting this in configuration would be good.

Having the data double up would not be any issue if we have a clear rule which one have priority over the other. I would say end_date from timetables have priority over config.

[pantierra]

I generally documented it here: https://github.com/grote/osm2gtfs/wiki/Schedule

To me it seems not very good to give a priority to the import file rather than the config file. Of course the information from the import file is more relevant, but only if it works out and comes in the right variable name, etc. The config file, however is something, we can control and specify what is needed and leave it empty for the import file to feed in, if possible. For example, think about the scenario of @grote in Florianópolis they download a very specific json file from the public transport provider. You still want to have control if you want to overwrite the values there or not.

[Skippern]

I will during the next weeks update Skippern/GV-scraper#1 both to align with the wiki documentation, and to try to add interim stations in the array, not just end points. I will probably need to experiment with my scripts in order to get this in a good way. Thinking of multiple ways of adding these stops, and might use the different solutions on different companies.

I will add name tag to the routes, both durations.json and times.json, and will make sure times.json includes the via tag from OSM.

[pantierra]

Basic support for this has been implemented in PR #99. More advanced parts of the here developed schedule format (like the "via" option) are handled in separate issues.

[pantierra]

Resolved with accepted PR #99