ewh-110315-estrogen-vs-progesterone.vtt

WEBVTT

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 (upbeat music)

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 You're listening to Holistic Living, brought to you by EastWest Healing and Performance.

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 And now, here are your hosts, Josh and Jeanne Rubin.

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 (upbeat music)

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 What up everyone? This is Josh and Jeanne Rubin.

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 I think Jeanne's on the other line right now. Are you there Jeanne?

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 I'm here. Can you hear me?

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 Already we can hear you.

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 This is Holistic Living and from Wellness Weight Loss Pain Elimination and Relaxation.

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 But of course, this year we've been having Ray Peat on every month.

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 Love to say thank you to him, of course, and keep growing on that.

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 And I guess before we introduce Ray and get him on the line,

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 we wanted to say a couple things about ourselves and about Ray.

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 And this is 100% from our mouth and has nothing to do with what Ray said or anything

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 because he's a super humble guy and he's really said nothing but answer our questions and say yes to doing the shows.

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 First thing is, check out our website at eastwesthealing.com.

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 Tons of free resources. It's a resource site, but we do work with clients nutritionally all over the world,

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 as far away as Switzerland and Israel, using the phone to help people with thyroid problems, GI problems,

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 hormonal imbalances, adrenal issues, fatigue, you name it.

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 So give us a call to set up your consultation. You can get all that information on our site.

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 As well, keep in tune with our website. It will be changing dramatically in the next three plus months

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 in regards to the look of it, the layout, what's on it, store, resources, you name it.

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 It's going to be fresh and new. We're really excited about it.

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 We're going to be adding with maybe some cheap downloadable videos to your desktop.

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 Of course, you have to pay for it, but they'll be very inexpensive and educational at the same time.

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 Enough about us. Oh, one more thing. Look us up on Facebook, Josh Rubin, Jeanne Rubin, YouTube, blog, blog talk, check it out.

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 The reason for us really doing this, and Jeanne can chime in, is first of all, we're human and we're Americans,

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 so we bastardize everything. I don't care who you are. We bastardize it.

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 What you have to understand is, from my perspective, and this is just my perception, and maybe Jeanne wants to add something,

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 Ray's approach is not an approach. It's a philosophy. It's a science.

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 It's a science on how the body works, how its biochemistry works, its biology works, its physiology works, everything.

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 It's not about an outside-in type of diet, like Paleolithic dieting and all these different diets out there and vegetarianism.

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 It's really based on the science of how the body works, and unfortunately, you can't argue against that.

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 Now, you can, of course, because it can create fear. It can create fear, but at the same time, our goal is to educate people.

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 It's not to create conflict on Facebook. It's not to create conflict on the show.

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 We want to share what we're learning, and that's really the bottom line.

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 So, you know, if you get pissed, you get two options. Shut us off and go somewhere else, or ease into it and learn just like we did.

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 We're not saying we're know-it-alls. We just want to share this stuff, and that's the bottom line.

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 Second thing, it's a process. His articles are technical. It's like finding Waldo and piecing things together,

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 and don't bastardize it and think just because you eat gelatin, carrots, and broth that you're going to become healthy and lose weight and healthy thyroid,

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 or just because you read an article that you know exactly what you're doing.

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 We're always learning, and realize that you might need to work with a practitioner or consult with someone in the industry that has studied his stuff

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 or, you know, has worked with him directly for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years because there are people out there besides us.

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 So, just realize that, and the third thing is I know that we've been getting a lot more emails and phone calls,

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 so I'm making a huge assumption that Ray has. Now, Ray's a humble person. From chatting with him, that's what I feel, not on the show, just off the show.

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 If you send him an email with 50 questions, he'll probably answer it, and never ask for money.

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 Now, he doesn't seem like a guy that's attached to the dollar, but at the same time, he does research.

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 Without his research, we wouldn't have this great information.

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 So, what I'm asking people, this has nothing to do with what he brought up. He's never even brought this up.

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 What I'm asking people is if you are emailing him, or you email him on a regular basis, that out of the kindness of your heart,

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 you send him a check for a dollar, you send him a check for $5, $100, whatever you feel is worth it.

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 That's really all we're asking, and you can do it anonymously. It's up to you.

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 So, that's really all I got to say about that.

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 I just think it will be a kind thing to do, since he takes time out of his day once a month to really educate us for free,

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 and he's answering all these emails. So, that's really all I ask.

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 Today, we're talking about estrogen versus progesterone.

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 Jeanne, are you still there? I don't think she's there. I don't hear her.

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 You can go to Ray Peat's site, r-a-y-p-e-a-t dot com.

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 He's got tons of articles. He's got books, a lot of great information.

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 Of course, a little technical, but, you know, you got to work for it.

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 A little bit about Ray, he's got a PhD in biology from the University of Oregon, and he specializes in physiology.

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 You're going to love it.

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 He's taught at many different schools, and you can check that out on your site,

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 from schools in Mexico, the U.S., Oregon, naturopathic schools.

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 He also does private consulting in regards to nutrition counseling.

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 He mainly started his work with progesterone and related hormones back in 1968,

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 so he's got tons of applicable knowledge in this realm.

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 That's why we're talking about it today.

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 He's done many papers on physiology and chemistry and physics,

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 done dissertations outlining progesterone and other hormones closely related to it,

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 and the list goes on and on and on.

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 Of course, a lot of people know by now that he's really big into hormones and regulating the thyroid

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 and using foods that are beneficial to the body based on our physiology.

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 So, if you want to learn more about him, check out his website, r-a-y-p-e-a-t dot com.

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 Tons of articles and books.

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 Let me grab Jeanne and Ray, because I think they're on the other line.

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 Just give me a second.

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 We've still got a --

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 [ Multiple Speakers ]

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 Yes, I'm here.

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 All right, we can hear you now.

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 Welcome.

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 How are we doing, Ray?

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 Very good, thank you.

00:07:19.880 --> 00:07:20.880
 Great.

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 Thanks for coming back on.

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 I know everyone's excited.

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 We've got, you know, tons and tons of listeners.

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 So, let's get to it.

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 We're going to be talking about estrogen and progesterone today, which, of course, is more hormones,

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 and we'll kind of intertwine this all together.

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 It's hard to get specific, but I guess it seems like you've been studying this for, you know, back since the 1960s.

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 I guess our first question is, what sparked your interest in the whole estrogen, progesterone, et cetera,

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 I guess, hormonal thing?

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 You know, because you have lots of articles, and a lot of your books are correlated with that.

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 So, what kind of got you to go down that avenue?

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 It really started just as a little kid growing up and noticing things.

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 Whenever I would see a medical textbook, I would read that.

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 They were generally more interesting than novels.

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 And when I worked in the woods, one of the old timers pointed out that when they wanted a pine tree to bear seeds,

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 they would chop it with an ax, and that made it bear fruit.

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 And I heard stories about how stress would bring on puberty prematurely,

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 and those ideas started blending with what I was hearing and seeing from, like, a woman in the '50s

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 who took a shot of estrogen, immediately came down with rheumatoid arthritis,

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 which got worse with each injection and completely cleared up when she stopped using it.

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 And a classmate's mother had a shot of estrogen for menopause,

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 and within 30 minutes was psychotic and was committed to the state institution for several months.

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 And the daughter, the classmate, began using contraceptives shortly after that and died of a stroke.

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 And other young women who were using those first very high-estrogen contraceptives

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 were being disabled by hemorrhaging and such.

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 And so it was in the culture by the time I decided to go to graduate school in biology,

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 but my intention was to study brain biology, nerve biology,

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 and that grew out of my interest in psychology and linguistics.

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 It turned out that the real science was being done in the endocrinology department

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 rather than in the very ideological nerve biology area.

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 And the fact that I had moved from Mexico to Oregon about the time I started graduate school,

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 I started noticing my own health was changing with the dark, rainy winters in Oregon.

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 And I started hearing stories from girls who came to go to graduate school

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 and would get a cheap basement apartment and would spend all winter with PMS.

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 So that, even though I hadn't yet started studying endocrinology,

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 I was seeing more things that were coalescing into the interactions of the environment with the hormones.

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 And I had been reading. I taught school.

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 I was assigned a course in physics for biology majors,

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 and in reading widely to know how to orient that, I ran across Hans Zellye's early work.

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 And in the '40s, he had already very well characterized the functions of all of the steroid hormones.

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 He had a thing called the Encyclopedia of Steroid Hormones.

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 And he demonstrated that a large dose of estrogen created a shock condition.

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 It had all of the features of shock.

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 And progesterone imitated all of the features of the stress-protecting hormones

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 so that animals didn't need their adrenal glands if they had a steady supply of progesterone

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 or if they were pregnant.

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 So the first reaction from a big dose of estrogen was known to be shock-like.

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 And so when I shifted over in graduate school to the endocrine department,

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 my project was reproductive aging just because that happened to be what the university had in the field of endocrine research.

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 And my thesis advisor had demonstrated that estrogen causes miscarriage, basically infertility,

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 but if you give the right dose at any stage of pregnancy, it will cause abortion.

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 And he had demonstrated that vitamin E in large doses would delay age-related infertility.

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 And my project was studying the oxidative changes in the uterus that occurred during aging.

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 And I found that the changes of the uterus with aging were the same as those produced by estrogen treatment,

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 but also by a deficiency of vitamin E and also by radiation treatment.

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 And I started seeing how relevant Hans Selye's work was showing the stress shock imitating effect of estrogen.

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 And in fact, any kind of shock or stress has estrogenic effects.

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 You can make an animal go into estrus by irradiating it, not just its head or ovaries, but any part of the body.

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 Something is produced that has an estrogenic effect.

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 If you put a plastic bag over a rat's head, it goes into estrus.

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 Suffocation activates the so-called estrogen receptors and will actually increase the production of estrogen

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 and the sensitivity to estrogen.

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 And even without estrogen, those stress situations will imitate the functions of estrogen.

00:15:07.880 --> 00:15:12.880
 Interesting. A lot of people probably haven't, some people haven't read about Hans Selye.

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 He was someone back in the day that kind of, I would say, if I could be incorrect or correct, coined the term stress

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 and developed the general adaptation syndrome.

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 Now, when we talk about estrogen, I guess we'll get into the whole radiation thing and we can talk about where it comes from.

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 But, you know, I guess I want your take on this because so many people, because of synthetic estrogens

00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:43.880
 and our environment with estrogens and the stress reaction with estrogen,

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 I think a lot of people make the misconception that it's essentially bad.

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 And correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, essentially, you know, it's really not a female hormone

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 because men and women both have it, correct?

00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:03.880
 So we actually need it to survive. It's a problem when it becomes more of an excess that it's a problem.

00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:10.880
 Yeah, it's really the essential masculinizing hormone.

00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:17.880
 The females can have it at the crucial developmental stage,

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 but they have a lot of a protein called alpha-fetoprotein that inactivates estrogen.

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 So at that stage, estrogen will create a male functioning organism

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 while it won't affect the healthy female fetus or infant

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 because the female is simply protected against estrogen by that special protein.

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 So its basic early function is as a masculine hormone.

00:16:55.880 --> 00:17:06.880
 And the estrogen industry really is where the idea came from that it's a female hormone.

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:14.880
 It was identified in the ovary, but the main ovarian hormone,

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 which is the feminizing hormone, is progesterone.

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 And men have quite a bit of progesterone, but women, probably the reason women live longer than men

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 is that they are able to produce much more progesterone than men

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 since men produce it mainly in their adrenal glands.

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 So I think for everyone listening, it's super important to hear that,

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 and correct me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to estrogen and progesterone,

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 there's no such thing as a male hormone or a female hormone because we both have them.

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 It's how they're labeled based on maybe whoever the research, whoever is doing them.

00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:08.880
 And they both play a huge role in how our physiology works, how our hormonal system works.

00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.880
 So it's really not that men have this and women have that.

00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.880
 We both have them, and we actually need them.

00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:20.880
 It's when one becomes very deficient or excessive in a sense that it creates an imbalance.

00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.880
 So I think that's an important part.

00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:28.880
 And remember that men and women produce them.

00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.880
 It's not just a female thing.

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:41.880
 Yeah, it's an excitatory transmitter, and its effect in females is--

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 the main effects are to cause the pituitary to produce prolactin,

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 to cause the breasts to develop, produce more tubules and keep growing,

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 where progesterone stops the growth and differentiates them,

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 and to cause the uterus to expand greatly in preparation for pregnancy.

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 But those effects-- there's a great surge of estrogen right around the time of ovulation

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 that lasts for about 12 hours, and that releases histamine in many tissues

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 that activates a great surge of cell division.

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 Both histamine and serotonin are released by estrogen.

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 And pregnancy requires that only in the sense that the uterus is activated

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 and made sensitive to the contact of the fertilized ovum,

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 and that preparatory activation is what estrogen is needed for.

00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.880
 But you can substitute many other irritants.

00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:13.880
 You can cause implantation to happen just with histamine in the absence of estrogen.

00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:21.880
 So estrogen isn't really essential for reproduction by the female in that sense

00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.880
 that you can substitute other things.

00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.880
 So in regards to estrogen and progesterone, you could have already mentioned this,

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 but beside the menstrual cycle and fertility, we talk about these hormones,

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.880
 and I know you talk about estrogen being excitatory,

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 and I do want to talk about histamine and prolactin and all these other hormones

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 because I think it's important for people to understand them as well as serotonin,

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 which is your newest newsletter, which is fabulous, by the way.

00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:58.880
 But what other roles do these things play in our lives beside the menstrual cycle,

00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.880
 or I should say women's menstrual cycle?

00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.880
 I mean you talk about how estrogen regulates blood sugar, right?

00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:17.880
 Yeah, it excites -- if you have too much of it, it will cause insulin to be over secreted

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 and can lower blood sugar that way.

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 But even though it doesn't need an estrogen receptor to activate a cell,

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 just about every cell in the body contains estrogen receptors,

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 and they tend to be increased by stress.

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 But there are other hormones that can imitate estrogen's excitatory effects

00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.880
 on the uterus and breast, for example.

00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:56.880
 The pituitary is the source of many excitatory hormones,

00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:07.880
 and so in great stress you get estrogenic influences from even the ACTH,

00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.880
 prolactin, FSH, and so on in the pituitary.

00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:19.880
 These act on many tissues in the same way that estrogen does.

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 The thyroid-stimulating hormone itself has some effects very similar to estrogen's.

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:30.880
 Right.

00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880
 So I guess -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:35.880
 No, go ahead.

00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.880
 I was going to say, going a little bit off topic and we can come back,

00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:40.880
 you're talking about estrogen and progesterone.

00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.880
 You know, there's so many people getting tested for these,

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.880
 and now there's so many new ways because you hear all these people saying, well,

00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:50.880
 you know, blood is inaccurate because in blood, you know,

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.880
 estrogen and progesterone are bound to proteins like albumin and sex hormone-bonding globulin,

00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.880
 but in saliva they're not, so saliva is more accurate.

00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.880
 Now, you know, I go back and forth, I keep bouncing back and forth,

00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.880
 and I know there's a lot of people out there that don't know what to do.

00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.880
 And it's hard because, you know, you see these people that are suffering,

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.880
 they go to their doctor, they do a blood lab, everything's fine,

00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.880
 and then they go to a saliva lab with someone and they see that, you know,

00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.880
 something's deficient like progesterone and they have their estrogen dominant.

00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.880
 You know, can you give us your kind of -- your philosophy or thoughts on, A,

00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:32.880
 which one you feel is a little more accurate and why we see this, why we see this difference?

00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:39.880
 One of the problems with lab tests is that each lab tends to have its own standard,

00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:49.880
 and there are practically no studies in which healthy people have been sought out for blood tests

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.880
 to establish the normal.

00:23:51.880 --> 00:24:02.880
 They usually use people who are sick with something else to establish the normal for a given blood test result.

00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:11.880
 So it's really kind of irrational to pay much attention to what they call normal,

00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:19.880
 unless you have someone really healthy that you want to consider as your model.

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:32.880
 But the idea of protein-bound hormones versus free hormones, if you try to dissolve estrogen

00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:40.880
 or progesterone, especially in water, you can hardly dissolve progesterone in oil.

00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.880
 It's very hard to dissolve.

00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:50.880
 It does bind nicely to albumin and several other kinds of protein.

00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:59.880
 But one of the assumptions is that what you're measuring in the saliva is free in some sense,

00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:05.880
 but they simply are not significantly soluble in water.

00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.880
 So what is it bound to when you're measuring it?

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:21.880
 Most tests done in the lab that are called free progesterone or free estrogen are really done by dialysis,

00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:31.880
 which means that the hormone which is bound to a protein is able to pass through a membrane,

00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:43.880
 which is usually a protein membrane, and is picked up on the other side by something which also is not in the watery phase,

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:47.880
 an antibody, for example, or other protein.

00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:53.880
 So freedom is purely a metaphysical idea.

00:25:53.880 --> 00:26:01.880
 Everything is moving along on the microscopic level, a solid phase.

00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:09.880
 So there's no real meaning outside of the laboratory, this distinction.

00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:19.880
 So the saliva, if the hormones are associated with something, but it just isn't well-defined what they're associated with.

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:24.880
 And several people have done tests.

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:33.880
 They've attached the hormone covalently to albumin so that it can't possibly get loose.

00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:40.880
 So it's absolutely a protein-bound hormone, and they find that it works.

00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.880
 It goes right into the cell.

00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:53.880
 Albumin has no trouble getting into the cytoplasm, into the mitochondrion, into the nucleus, taking its hormone with it.

00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:59.880
 And they've even attached hormones to the surface of red blood cells,

00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:10.880
 and that way they can tell whether the cell is sensing it at the surface or whether it has to travel into the cell on its carrier protein.

00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:25.880
 The whole idea that a hormone has to be free from a protein to get into the cell derives from the idea that there's a barrier at the surface of the cell.

00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:44.880
 It's really a distinction between a proteinaceous, oil-loving system, which is the cell, and the relatively wetter, less oil-loving external fluids and bloodstream.

00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:55.880
 So I guess, if I heard you correctly, and I could be wrong, that when it comes to a lab, it's really -- it's not that one or the other is better,

00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:02.880
 but -- well, it's more accurate, but in your eyes, the blood tests would be more accurate when it comes to the hormones?

00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:15.880
 Yeah, there's a very good base of information, even though their definition of what might be normal can be hard to interpret,

00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:24.880
 but still you have a big base of information about how the measurements are made.

00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:37.880
 And people vary tremendously in the amount of saliva they produce and even in the chemical composition and protein content of the saliva.

00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:47.880
 Depending on what's causing you to salivate, the protein content of the saliva is variable and also the hormone content.

00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:57.880
 Okay, so it's really that blood tests are accurate. The problem is we have so many norms, so the problem is people might have all this symptomatology,

00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:04.880
 but whoever they do the lab with, they're coming back within the norms. So they're being seen as, okay, the problem is --

00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.880
 What the norm is based off of.

00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:22.880
 When you look at the functional outcomes of manipulating the steroids as they've done in in vitro fertilization and fertility clinics,

00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:34.880
 they see that the results in humans are almost exactly the same as had been established for about 50 years in animals,

00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:43.880
 that fertility requires from 50 to 100 times as much progesterone as estrogen.

00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:52.880
 And that goes back to the fact that estrogen creates stress, miscarriage, and abortion.

00:29:52.880 --> 00:30:04.880
 And progesterone is really the progestational hormone. It really antagonizes the miscarriage-producing effect of estrogen.

00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:17.880
 And so the more you have, the better it is for pregnancy, and the person who is fertile is also resistant to stress in general and shock and so on.

00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.880
 Okay.

00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:27.880
 So that's kind of somewhere I want to go right now as far as discussing estrogen and its role in stress and how that all kind of comes together,

00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:38.880
 because even speaking about infertility and all these clinics that have popped up and how much more infertility we're seeing with people and miscarriages and whatnot.

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:46.880
 And again, estrogen has a role in stress and how that all kind of comes together, because I think it's a huge problem.

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:52.880
 And we're seeing such a huge, whether it's an estrogen dominance or a progesterone deficiency,

00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.880
 kind of what are some of the environmental components that are contributing to this?

00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.880
 Because when people think stress, they think emotional or this or that,

00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:08.880
 but it's really more looking out around the environment to see what's creating this imbalance in women,

00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:14.880
 because I mean, I know I'm probably not the only one that's seeing this huge imbalance.

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:21.880
 Anything stressful in the environment tends to increase estrogen.

00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.880
 This research goes back to about 1940.

00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:35.880
 The Biscons showed that malnutrition, after the Second World War, they tested it on humans,

00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:44.880
 but they had been testing it on rats, showing that malnutrition and other stresses would increase the estrogen.

00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:53.880
 Primarily in their studies, malnutrition caused the liver to be unable to destroy estrogen,

00:31:53.880 --> 00:32:03.880
 which normally 100 percent of the estrogen that gets to the liver is prepared for excretion by the kidneys or into the bile.

00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:15.880
 And if the liver is underactive because of, for example, a protein or vitamin B deficiency or a thyroid deficiency,

00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:24.880
 100 percent of the estrogen reaching the liver can pass right through it back into the bloodstream.

00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:37.880
 And that recirculating estrogen then turns on the adrenal stress hormones directly by acting on the adrenal cortex

00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:44.880
 and by blocking the ability of the thyroid gland to secrete the thyroid hormone,

00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.880
 which is needed by the liver to inactivate estrogen.

00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:05.880
 So a protein deficiency or a B vitamin deficiency is one of the things that can turn on absolute estrogen control and infertility.

00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:15.880
 And thyroid used to be in the 1940s and before was recognized as the basic fertility drug.

00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:31.880
 And as progesterone came to be understood, it was seen that thyroid is needed to turn cholesterol into progesterone to maintain a healthy pregnancy.

00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:42.880
 And increasingly, one of the environmental factors that impairs liver function, increases estrogen activity,

00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:52.880
 and inhibits thyroid function is the unsaturated oil, polyunsaturated so-called essential fatty acids.

00:33:52.880 --> 00:34:01.880
 These are all antithyroid and pro-estrogen and anti-progesterone.

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:16.880
 And some French researchers who had been hearing the propaganda about fish oil being good for the brain decided that they would demonstrate that fetuses are smarter

00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:33.880
 when the mother is getting a fish oil supplement by doing a sound and response test on the woman's abdomen, getting the fetus reaction to a sound.

00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:45.880
 And they found that the women who were getting the fish oil supplement, the fetuses had retarded learning reactions.

00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:53.880
 And when the babies were born, they found that not only were they smaller overall, but their brains were smaller.

00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.880
 And if they had been paying attention to the animal research in the preceding 50 years,

00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:16.880
 they would have seen that this is very predictable, that polyunsaturated fatty acids by increasing estrogen, lowering thyroid and progesterone retard the development of the brain of the fetus.

00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.880
 So, any stress alone, obviously, like you said, can mimic the estrogen reaction,

00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:29.880
 but you're saying that foods in itself can actually, like foods that are high in unsaturated fats or fish oils,

00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:39.880
 can actually mimic that reaction, which can downregulate the thyroid as well as, what's the word I'm looking for,

00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:48.880
 not back up the liver, but create liver toxicity problems as well as gut issues and inflammation and things like that, correct?

00:35:48.880 --> 00:36:00.880
 Yeah. The intestine is a very important factor because the liver excretes part of the estrogen through the kidneys by making it water soluble.

00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:13.880
 But part of it, which isn't that water soluble, goes into the bile and is excreted with the feces, assuming everything is working right.

00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:23.880
 But if the wrong bacteria are present and the bowel is sluggish, which always happens in hypothyroidism,

00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:34.880
 that estrogen tends to be reabsorbed, adding stress to the liver and raising the systemic estrogen level.

00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:44.880
 Sometimes just an antibiotic will drastically and immediately lower your estrogen and stress hormones

00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:53.880
 and increase the progesterone just by limiting that reabsorption from the intestine.

00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:59.880
 And that's what got me interested in the raw carrot effect.

00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:00.880
 Right.

00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:13.880
 You see the same effect, lower estrogen and cortisol and higher progesterone within about three days of eating a raw carrot every day.

00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.880
 So everyone that's listening, he talked about this last show.

00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:26.880
 He uses just one raw carrot to help prevent reabsorption of this estrogen or toxins in the intestine.

00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:35.880
 So he uses the food as a source of almost like charcoal, in a sense, to help prevent toxicity in the liver.

00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:46.880
 Yeah. As well as absorbing the estrogen like charcoal, it reduces the absorption of endotoxin and serotonin.

00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:56.880
 The intestine is a constant source of stress from endotoxin according to how irritated it is

00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:01.880
 and how poorly digested the starch and fiber are and so on.

00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:09.880
 And once it gets irritated, then it can produce massive amounts of serotonin that disturb the whole system.

00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:11.880
 Right.

00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.880
 Now, we're talking about estrogen, but there's other hormones that are correlated with it.

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:23.880
 So maybe if you could touch upon, kind of rewind a little and talk about prolactin and what it can do to the body

00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:30.880
 and their correlation maybe with osteoporosis and cortisol and adrenaline and even histamine.

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.880
 Because we're talking about them, I think it's important for people to know it's not just estrogen.

00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:41.880
 It's how it can actually cause a hormonal cascade of all these other hormones, including serotonin.

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:53.880
 Yeah. The brain, many people have been taught that mast cells or basophils are the only cells that produce histamine.

00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.880
 But any cell in the body seems to be able to produce it.

00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.880
 Cancer cells can produce it.

00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:09.880
 Brain cells, there's a network in the lower part of the brain that specializes in histamine signaling

00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:16.880
 to the rest of the brain, and it seems to be a stress organizing influence.

00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:25.880
 And serotonin is the other general stress signaling system in the brain.

00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:33.880
 When anything goes wrong, your brain activates the histamine and serotonin system.

00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:45.880
 And prolactin is one of the stress-reacting hormones, ACTH and thyroid-stimulating hormone or others.

00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:55.880
 But the prolactin can be used as an indicator of many bad conditions.

00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:01.880
 It tends to increase steadily with aging in both men and women.

00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:15.880
 And the normal range for prolactin about 30 years ago was lowered because they saw that people with the,

00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.880
 I forget the units, but the standard number, the top had been 20,

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:27.880
 but they started seeing that that was really, the top number was increased

00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:32.880
 because of the large number of women who were using birth control pills.

00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:42.880
 And there was an epidemic of prolactin secreting pituitary tumors resulting from the contraceptive estrogen exposure.

00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:54.880
 And so 30 years ago, the healthy normal range for prolactin was set back to 2 to 12.

00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:04.880
 And with age, that's a healthy person will rise in old age, maybe 8 or 10 or something like that.

00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:12.880
 But just a few years ago, the top number was raised in some labs to 25 or 30

00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:22.880
 because the average person is now in a stressed hyperprolactinemic condition.

00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:31.880
 So don't feel reassured if your prolactin is only 18 or 20 on the test

00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.880
 because everything is under stress when it's that high.

00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.880
 Right. And I know you...

00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:49.880
 It's been known for many years that prolactin is a major factor in bone loss.

00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:51.880
 Right.

00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:59.880
 A long time editor of the yearbook of endocrinology in one of...

00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:04.880
 I think it might have been the very last volume he edited.

00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:13.880
 He said it's interesting that prolactin causes osteoporosis, that estrogen increases prolactin,

00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:18.880
 but people are being told that estrogen will prevent osteoporosis.

00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:25.880
 That's going on and that was his last year as the editor of that book.

00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:28.880
 And it's...

00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:37.880
 Men develop osteoporosis progressively with age and with increasing prolactin.

00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:44.880
 So men also have a tendency for the estrogen to creep up with age,

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.880
 pushing the prolactin and stress hormones up.

00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:52.880
 So it isn't strictly a female thing,

00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:03.880
 but when progesterone falls at the first missed period around menopause,

00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:07.880
 that's when bone loss really picks up

00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:15.880
 and prolactin becomes active under the unopposed influence of estrogen.

00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.880
 Right. That was kind of my next question, the correlation between that.

00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.880
 Because you read a lot out there, like I know...

00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.880
 I studied Dr. John Lee a lot and Dr. McCormick,

00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:27.880
 and they talk a lot about that, how prolactin is increased with estrogen production.

00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:33.880
 Because a lot of people don't know that estrogen and progesterone actually play a part in osteoclast

00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:41.880
 and osteoblast production in regards to bone kind of building up and bone loss and prolactin as well.

00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.880
 Go ahead.

00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.880
 In the textbook we used in my endocrinology course,

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:56.880
 Constance Martin pointed out that people had been looking for an effect of estrogen on the bones

00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.880
 in various animals and humans.

00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:09.880
 But at that time, 1970, there had been no evidence that estrogen increased bone calcium retention,

00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.880
 although it did increase the soft tissue calcification.

00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:21.880
 That was very well established in animal research by the late 1960s.

00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:32.880
 But the first model for estrogen's effect on the bone they tried was the beagle dog,

00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:39.880
 and in them estrogen caused many problems, including bone loss.

00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:43.880
 But they found that rats were a good model.

00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:51.880
 It turns out that cortisol also increases bone density in rats.

00:44:51.880 --> 00:45:01.880
 Their endocrine systems are very different because they live at night and are very short-lived.

00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:10.880
 It just turned out that rats were a good model for selling estrogen as a way to prevent bone loss.

00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:21.880
 But the effect they could see that estrogen was immediately doing was reducing osteoclast activity.

00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.880
 Therefore, they said it stops bone turnover.

00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:33.880
 If you stop breaking down the bone, that's what you need to slow the bone loss.

00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:38.880
 That was the whole basis.

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:49.880
 Interestingly, the animal research was the whole basis for selling estrogen for preventing bone loss.

00:45:49.880 --> 00:46:00.880
 But human research was the basis for getting FDA approval for DES and other estrogens in the first place.

00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:10.880
 Because animal research had shown estrogen to be almost across the board toxic and carcinogenic.

00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:22.880
 So they can use clinical reports in humans, which are very subjective, when they want to sell a product.

00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:31.880
 But if they can find an animal model where they don't have any data in humans, they'll use the animal model.

00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:37.880
 So it's important to look at what the salesmen are referring to.

00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:45.880
 Is it a clinical or an animal model and how relevant and valid are they?

00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:52.880
 Right. Yep. Yep. Ray, you've got a lot of good stuff out there, guys, as well as Dr. John Lee.

00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:56.880
 And there's another gentleman named Dr. McCormick who did a radio show on osteoporosis.

00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:58.880
 You can read more about that.

00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.880
 When we talk about -- we'll talk a little bit more about estrogen.

00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.880
 Then I want to talk about progesterone because we're getting carried away with estrogen, which is important.

00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:11.880
 But maybe talk about -- because a lot of people that are listening are practitioners, but a lot of laypeople.

00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:13.880
 So some of the stuff goes over their head.

00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:20.880
 Kind of explain -- because I know you talk about it in one of your books -- there's kind of four ways you can be estrogen dominant.

00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:30.880
 Maybe talk about some of the symptoms, per se, like you talk about puffy skin and hypothyroidism and things like that.

00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:37.880
 Maybe talk more about some of the symptoms that people might see if they are estrogen dominant or progesterone deficient.

00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:44.880
 Since it's excitatory, it can temporarily increase alertness.

00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:53.880
 It acts on the same enzymes that cocaine acts on to increase the adrenaline action in the brain

00:47:53.880 --> 00:48:03.880
 and increases verbal activity so that women can talk twice as fast as men under the influence of estrogen.

00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:15.880
 And that's sold as a cognitive virtue, except that that carried on for a long time is excitotoxic to the nerves

00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:21.880
 and causes loss of nerve cell function.

00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:33.880
 And the more acute effects of estrogen dominance in the brain can include chorea,

00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:39.880
 sort of uncontrolled, unexpected movements of the arms and legs and such,

00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:47.880
 and epilepsy or seizures are promoted by estrogen.

00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:56.880
 Water retention is really the first action of estrogen on the cell.

00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:01.880
 Inexciting it causes it to take up water.

00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:08.880
 Anything that -- if you block the oxygen delivery to a cell, it'll take up water, too.

00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:19.880
 So the excitation moves the cell's requirements to a level that can't be sustained so the oxygen becomes deficient.

00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:26.880
 It takes up water and shifts its pH and electrical charge.

00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:38.880
 And that same shift of water into the cell makes the walls of the blood vessels leaky to water.

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:45.880
 And so the water shifts, letting sodium and water both go into the tissues,

00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:55.880
 causing the feet to swell up while you're standing up or during the night your face will share the water burden.

00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:07.880
 The estrogen, that immediate water-logging effect, can be compensated by the adrenal, the cortex,

00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:14.880
 and the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone effect,

00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:24.880
 which is to try to compensate for that leakiness by increasing the sodium retention in the kidney.

00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:32.880
 At first, sodium falls in the estrogen dominance as it goes out of the bloodstream into the tissue,

00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:38.880
 but then activating this blood pressure regulating system,

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:46.880
 you can shift from low blood pressure and swollen feet to high blood pressure

00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:56.880
 and all of the stress-related cortisol-dominant syndrome.

00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:06.880
 Even at an extreme, you can get gangrene constriction of the blood vessels of the extremities

00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:16.880
 and the calcification of soft tissues that the old endocrine textbooks used to mention.

00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:23.880
 That was another thing that Hans Selye investigated in great depth.

00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.880
 He called it calciflaxis and calcirgy,

00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:37.880
 in which the excited blood vessels first constrict and load up on calcium.

00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:46.880
 Estrogen releasing histamine and serotonin precedes that, but calcification and then

00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:54.880
 these injured areas tend to load up with iron in most cases,

00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:02.880
 and the iron increases the breakdown-free radical production in these tissues.

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:08.880
 So, it can lead to such things as gangrene of the fingers and toes

00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.880
 and scleroderma, hardening of the skin in various areas that are stressed.

00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.880
 I've seen people recover in just a couple of weeks from scleroderma

00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.880
 when they stopped using an estrogen supplement.

00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:26.880
 Yeah.

00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:30.880
 And a key to remember, I want to speak for Ray, because I understand a lot of his stuff,

00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.880
 but of course a lot of his stuff is just over my head too,

00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:37.880
 but there's many ways you can be "estrogen-dominant."

00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:40.880
 Your body can have difficulty detoxing it in the liver.

00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:47.880
 It could be excess because of stress or synthetic prescriptions you're taking.

00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:52.880
 It could be from your body oversynthesizing progesterone because of a stress,

00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.880
 or you could just be progesterone deficient.

00:52:54.880 --> 00:53:00.880
 So, I think it's person-dependent, wouldn't you say, or is it always the same?

00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.880
 Oh, it's always different.

00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:05.880
 Okay, yeah.

00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:10.880
 If you keep those different factors in mind, it's possible to figure it out.

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:18.880
 Because it's a balance between quick emergency stress reactions

00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:24.880
 and then long-term decompensation of the reactions.

00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:32.880
 And progesterone and thyroid are the things that give you the basic long-term protection.

00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.880
 Right, and I think listeners need to hear that.

00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:39.880
 Just because you're not taking a synthetic, or you might be, which is important to research

00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:43.880
 because I find most people are taking stuff they know nothing about.

00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.880
 But we both, men and women, have estrogen, so you can still have these effects.

00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:53.880
 Men can have estrogen, so this can be just physiological as well.

00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:58.880
 So it's not just from taking something.

00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:00.880
 We've talked a lot about estrogen.

00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:01.880
 Go ahead, Jeanne, I'm sorry.

00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:06.880
 Well, I was just going to say, in regards to that, as far as how people become estrogen-dominant,

00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:10.880
 we've touched on a few different factors, but one you just mentioned, Josh,

00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.880
 is that in a stress response and in relation to the hormonal pathway,

00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:21.880
 we've talked so much about estrogen, but how do we become, again, so estrogen-dominant

00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:24.880
 and so progesterone-deficient, and I think that's a huge point.

00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.880
 In a stress reaction, the body's going to almost bypass the production of progesterone

00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:39.880
 or use that for the production of cortisol in order to maintain or be able to respond in a sense.

00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.880
 I guess under stress, it's not important that we procreate or that we go to the bathroom,

00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:48.880
 whatever the case may be, or digest our foods or whatever it is.

00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:53.880
 The more important thing is that we have enough cortisol on hand to keep the brain working

00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:56.880
 and everything else, our main organs, functioning.

00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:05.880
 So I think when it comes to progesterone, what is the role that progesterone plays with estrogen?

00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.880
 I mean, they clearly work together.

00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:17.880
 Yeah, the stress will, if you just look at the protein that they call the estrogen receptor

00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:26.880
 and the progesterone receptor, each one acts outside of that system, but those are useful places

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.880
 to focus your attention.

00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:35.880
 Stress activates the estrogen receptor, and estrogen activates

00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.880
 and maintains the estrogen receptor in most systems.

00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:51.880
 But once the estrogen is acting, that turns on the cell's production of the progesterone receptor

00:55:51.880 --> 00:56:02.880
 that binds progesterone, and when progesterone is available and fills that protein receptor,

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:06.880
 that destroys the estrogen receptor.

00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:13.880
 So progesterone is an anti-estrogen in a very absolute sense.

00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:16.880
 It knocks out the protein that keeps it in the cell.

00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:26.880
 It knocks out the sulfatase and glucuronidase enzymes that allow it to condense in the cell,

00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:34.880
 and it activates positively the enzymes that eliminate estrogen from the cell

00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:41.880
 and inhibits aromatase, which makes new estrogen and so on.

00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:50.880
 So there are seven or eight specific mechanisms by which progesterone neutralizes

00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.880
 and destroys and eliminates estrogen.

00:56:53.880 --> 00:57:00.880
 So many people have wanted to say that it synergizes with estrogen,

00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:07.880
 but it doesn't really. It destroys estrogen in a very thorough manner.

00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:16.880
 But estrogen, if your body can respond, if it has thyroid, vitamin A, and cholesterol,

00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:22.880
 which are the materials needed to convert cholesterol to progesterone,

00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:29.880
 given an estrogen stimulation, your body will make a massive amount of progesterone,

00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:36.880
 get rid of the estrogen, and go on to differentiate the functioning, for example,

00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:42.880
 of the breast and the uterus for lactation and pregnancy.

00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:51.880
 And the progesterone counters the effect on all of the peripheral effects.

00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:59.880
 For example, estrogen activates the adrenal cortex to produce aldosterone and cortisol,

00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:05.880
 and progesterone not only counteracts that effect in the adrenal gland,

00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:15.880
 but even if you're injected with aldosterone and cortisol, if you have adequate progesterone,

00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:20.880
 the peripheral effects of those hormones are blocked.

00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:27.880
 Progesterone will serve in place of cortisol or aldosterone if you don't have either of those

00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:35.880
 because the adrenals are removed, so it will let the kidneys function properly

00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:40.880
 and take care of most inflammations and so on.

00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:45.880
 But if you have an excess of aldosterone and cortisol,

00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:50.880
 progesterone also prevents the toxic effects of those hormones

00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:54.880
 the way it protects against toxic effects of estrogen.

00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:00.880
 So progesterone fields in for a deficiency of many hormones

00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.880
 and protects against an excess of those same hormones.

00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:06.880
 Right. Right.

00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:10.880
 And you talk about, too, what role does it play with magnesium?

00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:15.880
 You talk about it a lot in your book, what's it called,

00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:19.880
 the "Fourth Molecular Progesterone" book that you've written.

00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:21.880
 That's great. I want to get it.

00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:24.880
 Can you elaborate on its role with magnesium?

00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:27.880
 Well, partly.

00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:34.880
 Jerry Aikawa was a magnesium specialist who wrote at least one good book on magnesium.

00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:42.880
 He showed that the cell which needs magnesium for many functions,

00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:49.880
 but, for example, ATP is stabilized in the presence of magnesium,

00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:54.880
 and if magnesium is deficient, you're energy deficient,

00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.880
 and that contributes to cell swelling.

00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:04.880
 If the mast cell is magnesium deficient, it can't retain histamine

01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:08.880
 and serotonin and other inflammatory things.

01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:16.880
 And so whatever holds magnesium inside the cell prevents inflammation

01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:20.880
 and allows differentiation and good function.

01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:25.880
 And Jerry Aikawa showed that thyroid, the T3 especially,

01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:31.880
 is what is needed by the cell to retain magnesium.

01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:40.880
 And I think the production of ATP and carbon dioxide

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:47.880
 is the mechanism by which the thyroid regulates the retention of magnesium.

01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:55.880
 And the reduction of histamine, serotonin,

01:00:55.880 --> 01:01:00.880
 and other inflammatory things by magnesium

01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:06.880
 and its association with high-energy cell metabolism

01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:10.880
 and production of carbon dioxide

01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:17.880
 antagonize the improper actions of calcium.

01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:25.880
 When the cell is inflamed or de-energized in the absence of thyroid and magnesium,

01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:31.880
 it takes up calcium, and the reason it takes it up is partly because

01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:37.880
 the calcium should be held in suspension in the blood

01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:43.880
 as an ion combined with carbon dioxide or bicarbonate.

01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:49.880
 If you lose the bicarbonate, then the calcium goes into the cell

01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:53.880
 and keeps it in an excited, inflamed state.

01:01:53.880 --> 01:02:03.880
 And so the proper condition of the calcium goes with the availability of magnesium,

01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:10.880
 and the magnesium keeps the platelet as well as the mast cell from degranulating

01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:17.880
 and putting out serotonin and other inflammatory and clot-promoting agents.

01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:22.880
 Right. The name of his book is "Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine"

01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.880
 and I have it in front of me, but it's a great book.

01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:30.880
 It looks like a small book, but it's packed, packed with great info.

01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.880
 Mine is basically -- I should have just dipped it in red ink,

01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:37.880
 but it's a great book and it talks about the benefits of progesterone

01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:43.880
 and how it works to basically restrain blood clotting and help balance blood sugar

01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.880
 and help with kidney function and downregulate histamine.

01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:48.880
 So it's got a lot of different functions in the body,

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.880
 so it's definitely worth reading whether you're in the industry or not.

01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.880
 If you have progesterone in your body, you should be reading it.

01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:58.880
 That's my opinion on it.

01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:01.880
 You know, our last chat we talked a lot about the thyroid.

01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:07.880
 Can you -- and you kind of mentioned a little bit in how estrogen in itself,

01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:10.880
 I guess we could say downregulates the thyroid

01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.880
 and we could say that progesterone would stimulate the thyroid,

01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:21.880
 but you talked about how we also need vitamin A and cholesterol to produce progesterone.

01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:26.880
 Without medications, how one might do that with nutrition?

01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:30.880
 And I'm not looking for, you know, of course we don't have to have the plan,

01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:33.880
 just some basic recommendations.

01:03:33.880 --> 01:03:43.880
 The factor of polyunsaturated fat, in the last 50 years,

01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:48.880
 this has been probably the main thing interfering with thyroid function,

01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:58.880
 and you can block that very quickly with coconut oil because of the quick availability

01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.880
 of the short and medium chain saturated fats.

01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:14.880
 They compete against the polyunsaturated fats for producing oxygen in the mitochondria.

01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:19.880
 The short chain saturated fats are anti-inflammatory

01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:23.880
 and have many indirect helpful functions,

01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:29.880
 but they provide energy so quickly that they block many of the actions

01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:33.880
 of the polyunsaturated fats.

01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:40.880
 And the thyroid and the mitochondrial energy production are constantly

01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:45.880
 under a breaking influence of the polyunsaturated fats.

01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:51.880
 When you're under stress, you free fatty acids to circulate,

01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:56.880
 so every time you're under stress, your thyroid function is blocked a little bit

01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:01.880
 and your cellular ability to use sugar is blocked a little bit.

01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:08.880
 Coconut oil gives you a temporary reprieve while it's being digested

01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:11.880
 for a couple hours after eating it.

01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:18.880
 It interferes with that blocking system of the polyunsaturated fats.

01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:23.880
 Sugar does the same thing, only it doesn't have the same competitive power

01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:28.880
 against the fatty acids.

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:38.880
 And when you're having enough sugar and saturated fatty acids to interrupt

01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:44.880
 the anti-metabolic effect of the polyunsaturated fats,

01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.880
 your blood sugar is stable and more available to be used

01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:52.880
 and stored in the liver.

01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:58.880
 And the liver senses the availability of fuel, especially glucose,

01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:02.880
 to govern your thyroid function.

01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:09.880
 And the way it does that is local rather than acting through your pituitary

01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:11.880
 or thyroid gland.

01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:17.880
 Your thyroid gland puts out about three parts of thyroxine for every part

01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:19.880
 of active T3 hormone.

01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:25.880
 And your liver, when it senses that you have enough fuel as glucose

01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:33.880
 or short fatty acids, will allow the thyroxine to be turned

01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:44.880
 into the active T3 and will provide a very high and adequate thyroid hormone.

01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:52.880
 The thyroid gland itself directly contributes about 30% of the active stuff.

01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:58.880
 So it takes a little while for a change in the thyroid gland to affect

01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:04.880
 the metabolism where the liver is instantly monitoring the amount of fuel

01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:06.880
 and adjusting accordingly.

01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:12.880
 So as long as your liver has enough glucose stored as glycogen to keep

01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:17.880
 your blood sugar steady for eight hours or so,

01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:21.880
 your metabolic rate will stay the same.

01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:26.880
 As soon as your liver runs out of glucose, if you're not getting a steady

01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:34.880
 supply from your food, then your T3 production falls immediately

01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:37.880
 by about 60% or 70%.

01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:46.880
 And then your thyroid and pituitary sense those changes and will adjust

01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:51.880
 slightly later than your liver.

01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:56.880
 So the one reason I like Ray's philosophy, guys, is it's super unconventional,

01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:58.880
 but it's really how the body works.

01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:03.880
 And the thing about the thyroid is if you take away the foods that are

01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:07.880
 creating inflammation and creating that stress response that he's talked

01:08:07.880 --> 01:08:10.880
 about, like the cortisol, which down-regulates the thyroid,

01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:15.880
 and you eat the foods that allow for the conversion of thyroid and allow

01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:18.880
 for the liver to work properly, and a lot of them, of course,

01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:20.880
 are anti-inflammatory proteins.

01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:22.880
 You know, maybe we'll do some shows on that.

01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:26.880
 But eating the right types of vegetables, obviously you've seen on his site,

01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:28.880
 he advocates sugar.

01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:32.880
 So it's a huge part, along with everything else, the coconut oil,

01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:36.880
 in regards to stimulating the thyroid and pushing you, you know,

01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:38.880
 into that anti-inflammatory state.

01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:41.880
 So it can be done with food.

01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:46.880
 It doesn't always have to be herbs, plant-based supplements,

01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:47.880
 and things like that.

01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:52.880
 So I think that's an important thing to take away.

01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:55.880
 I think we have a couple more questions, and then we'll just kind of maybe

01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:58.880
 take some calls if we have them and then kind of wrap it up.

01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.880
 I actually kind of want to ask or touch on or have Ray kind of explain, you know,

01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.880
 there's a lot of women out there who are, you know, upon menopause,

01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:14.880
 went to the doctor and got put on different HRT, you know, hormone therapy,

01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.880
 or women who are on the pill.

01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:21.880
 Can you kind of talk about that a little bit and what some alternative methods

01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:27.880
 may be for women who want to protect themselves against these estrogens

01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:31.880
 or increased estrogens or even, you know, young women on the pill

01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:36.880
 who are altering their hormonal balances through being on the pill?

01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:37.880
 What would you--

01:09:37.880 --> 01:09:45.880
 The consumption of the menopausal hormones decreased drastically

01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:50.880
 after the 2002 Women's Health Initiative results came out,

01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:57.880
 showing that estrogen causes strokes and heart attacks and dementia and cancer,

01:09:57.880 --> 01:10:01.880
 the things that they were selling it to prevent.

01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:07.880
 But the industry always comes back with propaganda pieces

01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:14.880
 in all the medical journals, and so a lot of women are again being indoctrinated

01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:15.880
 to take it.

01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:21.880
 The short-term benefit is that it's very much like cocaine.

01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:23.880
 It peps you up.

01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:29.880
 But if a person wants to withdraw from it,

01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:33.880
 there's often a time of depression and low energy,

01:10:33.880 --> 01:10:39.880
 and while adjusting the thyroid and progesterone and diet functions,

01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:46.880
 sometimes it just helps to supplement coffee to keep the mental energy up.

01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:56.880
 And the hot flashes are really--it's a complex set of reactions,

01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:03.880
 but I experienced hot flashes when I traveled to Mexico

01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:11.880
 and was exerting too much too fast for not being adapted to the altitude,

01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:18.880
 and every time I would stop and rest I would have a hot flash,

01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:22.880
 and that started me looking around,

01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:27.880
 and I noticed young women who were working very hard

01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:31.880
 were suffering hot flashes in their 20s.

01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:34.880
 It isn't just a menopausal thing,

01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:44.880
 but it's a stress, adrenaline, cortisol, very complex set of reactions,

01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:51.880
 and the simplest, safest way to respond to them is, for example,

01:11:51.880 --> 01:11:56.880
 if you have night sweats and hot flashes during the night,

01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:02.880
 having a lot of carbohydrate at bedtime will normally be enough to stop them,

01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:08.880
 and having a snack of a glass of orange juice and milk several times through the day

01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:11.880
 will usually stop them.

01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:18.880
 Some salty food to steady the blood sugar and adrenaline

01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:24.880
 will very often be all it takes to stop the hot flashing.

01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:28.880
 Now, Ray, I just want to clarify something,

01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:33.880
 because a lot of people listen and they hear what you're saying,

01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:38.880
 and I know what you're saying, but I know some people just hear "high-carbohydrate meal,"

01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:43.880
 and people are always looking for a way to push someone down,

01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:48.880
 and people can run with that and go, "Well, Ray P. advocates eating a high-carbohydrate meal."

01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:53.880
 I want to clarify that my perception of what you're saying is

01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:59.880
 that you're talking more of the right types of carbohydrates in regards to your tropical fruits,

01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:02.880
 your root vegetables, milk and sugar, orange juice.

01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:06.880
 You're not talking about, you know, pots and pot parts and things like that.

01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:10.880
 No, there are many problems with the starchy foods,

01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:17.880
 so I'm strongly against all of the grainy starches in particular.

01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:23.880
 You're going to have to eat starch just to get by.

01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:28.880
 It should be cooked for maybe 40 minutes as a minimum

01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:33.880
 and then eaten with cream, butter, or coconut oil,

01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:40.880
 because the starch grains very easily find their way into the bloodstream,

01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:48.880
 and other body fluids in the bloodstream, they clog small arterioles

01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:56.880
 and cause systemic injury chronically.

01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:02.880
 They've demonstrated that in mice as well as people.

01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:06.880
 Cooking the starch much more than normal

01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:09.880
 and eating it with quite a bit of fat is protective,

01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:18.880
 but still people keep sending me studies showing that in a study of five weeks or so,

01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:26.880
 they argue that there's a great benefit from feeding a high starch diet rather than a high sugar diet.

01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:29.880
 But when you look at the long-range effects,

01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:38.880
 if they continued, you'd see a super obese, stressed, older animal

01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:42.880
 if it lived on that same high starch diet,

01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:48.880
 where the sugar helps to regulate the adrenal and the thyroid hormones

01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:54.880
 and to moderate the insulin and other adaptive hormones.

01:14:54.880 --> 01:15:04.880
 And I don't advocate eating, although I think a person should have at least 80 to 100 grams of good protein every day,

01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:12.880
 more is okay, but it's important not to eat too much protein by itself.

01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:19.880
 I had the experience of almost fainting after eating just eggs for breakfast

01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:24.880
 when I was in a hurry in a cold climate,

01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:30.880
 and I heard that it was fairly common for women on a diet,

01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:34.880
 if they just ate eggs, to faint about an hour later

01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:42.880
 because the egg protein is very high quality and stimulates insulin secretion,

01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:48.880
 which lowers the blood sugar, and that calls for a very intense cortisol reaction,

01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:54.880
 and it often can produce a fainting reaction,

01:15:54.880 --> 01:16:00.880
 but it always produces the insulin cortisol reaction,

01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:07.880
 which has chronic cumulative effects, aging your brain cells and immune system and so on.

01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:16.880
 So it's very important to not burn the protein for energy.

01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:23.880
 You want the protein to be used as protein, not as a substitute for sugar and fat.

01:16:23.880 --> 01:16:29.880
 Yes, just like the paleo diet.

01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:33.880
 I love to do a show on macro and micronutrients,

01:16:33.880 --> 01:16:38.880
 but I just wanted to clarify that because I know some people could easily take that out of context.

01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:43.880
 The one thing we found that works great with us and a lot of our clients

01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:48.880
 when it comes to regulating body temperature and downregulating adrenaline,

01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:53.880
 is that the bed is dairy and sugar.

01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:55.880
 It's with gelatin as well.

01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:59.880
 It's worked great to help downregulate adrenaline and help with people's sleep patterns.

01:16:59.880 --> 01:17:01.880
 And of course, there's many other pieces to the puzzle,

01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:07.880
 but it's one thing we found that's definitely helped.

01:17:07.880 --> 01:17:11.880
 But we'll do a show at some point, I guess, if you don't mind,

01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:16.880
 and we can talk a lot about macro and micronutrients.

01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:22.880
 When it comes to HRT, I know you do recommend taking progesterone,

01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:25.880
 and there are many types of progesterone.

01:17:25.880 --> 01:17:27.880
 Can you maybe elaborate a little bit on--

01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.880
 I know you like yours that's suspended in vitamin E,

01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:36.880
 and then a lot of people say, "Well, I do these drops or I take the cream."

01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.880
 What's the major difference between these?

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.880
 For about 40 years I've been telling people that I don't believe in hormone replacement therapy

01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:58.880
 because I've seen so many people-- dementia, epilepsy, rheumatoid arthritis,

01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:04.880
 other types of arthritis, totally disabling diseases--

01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:10.880
 I've seen recover overnight from one dose of progesterone.

01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:18.880
 And most of these people, I've seen them 10, 20, 30 years later,

01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:25.880
 and they still haven't had a recurrence of that terrible problem.

01:18:25.880 --> 01:18:32.880
 So I think of progesterone, if it doesn't work within a week,

01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:37.880
 something else should be fixed.

01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:43.880
 So I advocate the diet first, thyroid next,

01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:49.880
 and then you probably-- if your cholesterol is okay and you're eating right

01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:53.880
 and your thyroid is working, then you don't need progesterone.

01:18:53.880 --> 01:19:01.880
 But for an emergency, the things I do recommend it for are epilepsy,

01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:15.880
 other movement disorders, MS, dementia, all types of mental impairments,

01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:25.880
 and arthritis of all sorts, any very acute migraine.

01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:31.880
 It'll usually stop a migraine if you have some backup of thyroid function.

01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:38.880
 It'll stop a migraine sometimes in two minutes with a big dose.

01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:44.880
 So for any disabling acute thing-- for example,

01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:50.880
 there are studies now being done on brain trauma patients.

01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:55.880
 If you can get the progesterone to them in the first day,

01:19:55.880 --> 01:20:00.880
 they practically all recover from before they would have practically all died.

01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:02.880
 Right.

01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:05.880
 So I think it's important for the listeners because, you know,

01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:09.880
 Ray has his thoughts on gelatin and sugar and progesterone and estrogen and stress

01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:10.880
 and all these foods.

01:20:10.880 --> 01:20:12.880
 The thing is, it's all individualized.

01:20:12.880 --> 01:20:14.880
 Not every single person needs progesterone.

01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:17.880
 There's only certain times you need it.

01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:22.880
 So, you know, try the nutrition first, which is--nutrition is really specific,

01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:26.880
 and like I said, we work with people based on our interpretations of his work.

01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:30.880
 Try that first to make sure--to see if you can get the thyroid working

01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:32.880
 and downregulate stress.

01:20:32.880 --> 01:20:35.880
 And then, you know, last ditch, try the progesterone.

01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:39.880
 But it can be used, like you said, for specific disorders and insomnia

01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:42.880
 to definitely help people.

01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.880
 I--you know, we've gone about an hour and 20 minutes.

01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:47.880
 I don't really have any more questions.

01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:50.880
 Of course, you know, I would consider it for hours and hours and hours

01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:52.880
 and talk about this stuff.

01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:56.880
 But like I said, guys, Ray's got tons of articles on his website on estrogen

01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:58.880
 and progesterone.

01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:00.880
 His book on progesterone is great.

01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:04.880
 "From PMS to Menopause" is probably one of my favorite books that he's written.

01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:06.880
 It's a great book you can look into.

01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:10.880
 Jeannie, do you have any more questions for Ray?

01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:12.880
 I don't at this time, no.

01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:15.880
 I think we've gotten a lot of great information.

01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:21.880
 Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot for people to kind of digest.

01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:28.880
 And there's a lot more to it than even what we covered.

01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:31.880
 You know, so definitely check out his website.

01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:33.880
 Do you have anything else you might want to add, Ray?

01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:38.880
 You had sent a question about Barberg's theory of cancer.

01:21:38.880 --> 01:21:43.880
 And that's something that lots of people are starting to talk about again.

01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:50.880
 After he was ridiculed by most doctors in the United States for about 30 or 40 years,

01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:53.880
 people are now starting to talk about him again.

01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:57.880
 But they're invariably misinterpreting him.

01:21:57.880 --> 01:22:00.880
 They haven't read what he really said.

01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:06.880
 And they're thinking that you should go on a sugar-free diet

01:22:06.880 --> 01:22:13.880
 or something that had really nothing to do with what Barberg was talking about.

01:22:13.880 --> 01:22:24.880
 What he said was that the respiratory apparatus, the mitochondrion, is impaired and causes cancer.

01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:35.880
 And with the impaired mitochondrion, the cell can't turn off its use of glucose.

01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:43.880
 He didn't say that it stops its use of body tissues.

01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:51.880
 The cancer goes on burning the body's protein and fat stores at a tremendous rate.

01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:57.880
 And if you give it sugar, you can slow down the destruction of the body.

01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:05.880
 But what he emphasized was that the sugar is being converted to lactic acid

01:23:05.880 --> 01:23:11.880
 even when there's a good supply of it in the body.

01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:18.880
 And what you want to do is prevent the destruction of the body by the tumor.

01:23:18.880 --> 01:23:26.880
 And lactic acid happens to turn on all of the stress reactions, inflammatory mediators,

01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:32.880
 promoting the spread of cancer and the survival of cancer

01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:39.880
 by promoting the conversion of the body into fuel for the cancer.

01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:51.880
 So the sugar-free diet that a lot of people are now blaming on Barberg doesn't really fit with what he did.

01:23:51.880 --> 01:24:03.880
 Right, and he's referring to Warburg's theory on cancer.

01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:09.880
 So it's about our body's incorrect use of sugar in a sense.

01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:13.880
 And when you talk about CO2 and all these different things and oxygen,

01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:18.880
 I guess we could start saying it's more -- estrogen even has more of an effect on that

01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:26.880
 because of how it pulls oxygen from the tissues and even from our organs.

01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:34.880
 Yeah, the instantaneous effect of either estrogen or unsaturated fatty acids

01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:43.880
 is to imitate the Warburg effect of lacking the Pasteur effect,

01:24:43.880 --> 01:24:47.880
 which is for oxygen to turn off lactic acid.

01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:52.880
 In the presence of high estrogen and high polyunsaturated fats,

01:24:52.880 --> 01:25:02.880
 we'll make lactic acid and not be able to use the energy oxidatively.

01:25:02.880 --> 01:25:10.880
 And correct me if I'm wrong, that he's actually saying or you're saying it's actually the lack of sugar

01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:15.880
 that's creating the excess estrogen or it's the poofers that are getting sugar into the cell

01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:18.880
 that's creating the cancer.

01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:19.880
 It's not too much sugar.

01:25:19.880 --> 01:25:21.880
 It's actually not enough.

01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:25.880
 Yeah, the cancer is eating everything at a high rate,

01:25:25.880 --> 01:25:31.880
 including wasting the sugar by turning it to lactic acid, which burdens the whole system.

01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:38.880
 And that turns on the stress system.

01:25:38.880 --> 01:25:40.880
 Right.

01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:41.880
 It's all great stuff, guys.

01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:46.880
 Like I said, his approach in theory is definitely against the grain, but it works and it makes sense.

01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:50.880
 The way I explain it to people, I don't know, this is what I say,

01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:53.880
 is you read his stuff, you've got to find a little bit in this article and that article,

01:25:53.880 --> 01:25:56.880
 kind of like where's Waldo, and intertwine it together.

01:25:56.880 --> 01:26:01.880
 And if you can do that, you'll have a great philosophy.

01:26:01.880 --> 01:26:05.880
 So anything else you want to add or any other questions, Jeannie?

01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:12.880
 I'm pretty much -- I think I've got all my questions answered, I'm sure.

01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:15.880
 Yeah, I think we touched on everything.

01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:17.880
 Yeah.

01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:22.880
 So unless you have anything else to add, Ray, we really appreciate you once again coming on.

01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.880
 We've had tons of listeners, thousands of listeners,

01:26:25.880 --> 01:26:31.880
 and people are really taking in what you say and honestly appreciating it.

01:26:31.880 --> 01:26:38.880
 So everyone says thank you for coming out each month and sharing your knowledge.

01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:40.880
 Okay.

01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:42.880
 Yeah, I've been getting a lot of e-mails,

01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:50.880
 but I won't even be able to fill book orders for a few weeks because we've got to get caught up.

01:26:50.880 --> 01:26:52.880
 Right.

01:26:52.880 --> 01:26:56.880
 Well, everyone definitely appreciates that,

01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:01.880
 and I gave everyone a little introduction speech at the beginning in regards to that,

01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:07.880
 because everyone does value their time, and I don't want people to take advantage of your time.

01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:09.880
 Okay.

01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:11.880
 So I gave them a little speech.

01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:16.880
 But we definitely appreciate it, and if you don't have anything to add,

01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:19.880
 we'd like to say thanks and have a wonderful day.

01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:21.880
 Okay, thank you.

01:27:21.880 --> 01:27:22.880
 Bye, Ray.

01:27:22.880 --> 01:27:23.880
 Bye-bye.

01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:24.880
 Bye-bye.

01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:27.880
 Bye-bye.

01:27:27.880 --> 01:27:33.880
 So, guys, once again, Ray P., check out his website, R-A-Y-P-E-A-T-E.

01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:35.880
 Lots of great articles and books.

01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:38.880
 If you're starting out, books are probably easier to read than the articles,

01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:40.880
 but just grab one and just start reading.

01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:41.880
 Just jump in.

01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:45.880
 It's not going to make sense, but just keep reading and reading the articles and connect the dots.

01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:47.880
 It takes years.

01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:50.880
 This stuff is technical, but it's just great stuff.

01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:53.880
 Didn't take callers, didn't really feel like taking callers.

01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:58.880
 You know, as you always see, it kind of frustrates me, so I just said, "Hey, I'm not going to take them.

01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:01.880
 I'd rather just listen to Ray talk and educate us all."

01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:05.880
 If you've got questions, like I said, you can contact Ray.

01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:10.880
 Please, if you -- even send him a dollar, I don't care what it is, $10, $100, $500,

01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:13.880
 whatever you want to send him, please send him something, not just to send it to him,

01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:18.880
 but if you're asking him questions via e-mail, and I know a lot of you have, he'll just answer them.

01:28:18.880 --> 01:28:20.880
 You know, he's a great guy.

01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:23.880
 So please, you know, compensate him for your time.

01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:27.880
 And it's not the subtle answer, but it takes a lot of time sometimes to answer all these questions.

01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.880
 Oh, I know.

01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:35.880
 So thanks, everyone, for tuning in.

01:28:35.880 --> 01:28:36.880
 Check back.

01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:42.880
 We'll have our next show posted soon in regards to the month of April in regards to Ray's show.

01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:48.880
 Next week we're actually going to be doing a show Tuesday at 1 o'clock Pacific Coast time.

01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:52.880
 A gentleman named Matt Stone, he's got a website and blog out there.

01:28:52.880 --> 01:28:55.880
 You can look him up on Facebook as well.

01:28:55.880 --> 01:29:01.880
 He contacted us and wanted to do a show, the three of us, more like a conversation type show in regards to,

01:29:01.880 --> 01:29:09.880
 you know, health, weight loss, thyroid, liver, you know, all that stuff out there and what's worked

01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:15.880
 and what hasn't worked in regards to Ray Peat's philosophy in Brodo Barnes because he's been using it for years.

01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:21.880
 So it's going to be a conversational show, I guess more layman's terms of Ray's philosophies.

01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:27.880
 You know, what are anti-inflammatory proteins and why use gelatin, why we're advocating sugar,

01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:29.880
 and why is it important to use temperature and pulse.

01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:31.880
 So check it out.

01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:36.880
 Obviously it's a free show, and it'll just be the three of us chatting in.

01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:39.880
 And we'll be taking callers.

01:29:39.880 --> 01:29:41.880
 So that's all I have to say.

01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:43.880
 I think I produced more estrogen because I talk fast.

01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:47.880
 That's my correlation from today's show.

01:29:47.880 --> 01:29:48.880
 All right.

01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:49.880
 I'm done.

01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:51.880
 Thanks, guys, for joining us.

01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:52.880
 All right.

01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:53.880
 We'll see you guys later.

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