kmud-100716-altitude.vtt

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 Well, welcome to this month's Ask Your Ab Doctor. My name's Andrew Murray.

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 My name's Sarah Johannison Murray.

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 For those of you who perhaps have never listened to our shows, which run every third Friday of the month from 7 till 8pm,

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 we're both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine.

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 And we run a clinic in Garboville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions.

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 We manufacture all our own certified organic herbal extracts, which are either grown on our CCUF certified herb farm

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 or which are sourced from other USA certified organic suppliers.

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 You're listening to Ask Your Ab Doctor on KMUD Garboville 91.1 FM.

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 And from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o'clock, you're invited to call in with any questions

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 either related or unrelated to this month's mixed topic of elevation and the protective effects of CO2 and its many health benefits.

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 We are once again very pleased to be joined by Dr. Ray Peat, who will be sharing his research and knowledge of this topic.

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 The number here if you live in the area is 923 3911, or if you live outside the area, the toll free number is 1800 568 3723.

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 That's 1800 KMUD RAD.

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 We can also be reached toll free on 1 888 WBMERB for further questions during normal business hours Monday through Friday.

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 For those listeners who perhaps have never heard you speak, Dr. Peat, would you please give us an outline of your academic work before we start this month's show?

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 I started out in literature and painting because I was aware that American biology in particular was pretty backward at the time I was in university.

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 It wasn't until I got a master's degree and taught linguistics and tried being a professional painter and such that finally I decided to go back and study physiology because I had been reading that all along.

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 So academically I started fairly late in science, but that was sort of an advantage because it kept me from having to conform to the dogmas that rule the scientific world.

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 You've extensively lectured and taught at universities and you have a few, if not many, specialties. Would you just briefly outline your particular interests?

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 Progesterone, thyroid, aging, and the last 10 or 20 years I've been thinking a lot about carbon dioxide and its physiology.

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 Excellent. That's actually what we're going to talk about this month. That's good news.

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 I know that for some time now I've been made aware, like all things and most things, we are slowly, for want of a better word, evolving and being retrained.

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 My mind certainly has been retrained, Dr. Peat, since I left university studying herbal medicine in much the same way our physiology and pathology, clinical skills not so much, but pathology and physiology was very much dictated by the texts at the time.

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 Quite a lot of that seems to be erroneous. I know that you've really, gosh, opened our eyes to certain things that I thought were just the way they were, but actually they're very different.

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 I know perhaps during this evening's talk, when I'm going to ask you to outline the benefits, say, for example, of elevation, that I know we're going to come across a lot of different co-factors which are all helpful and all have a part to play, if you like, in restoration of health.

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 Perhaps let's start with elevation as we're going to talk about the effects of high elevation. What does high elevation do for a person?

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 I think the thing that strikes me most is that we all know about communities that are famous for having high populations of longevity. How does elevation confer longevity to a human?

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 That's the essence of the problem is what is the outstanding feature that affects all of the high populations.

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 A hundred years ago, insurance companies already knew that the actuaries were looking at the mortality figures for different diseases and they saw that cancer, for example, was much less common in all of the high cities of the world.

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 As recently as the 1950s, Linus Pauling was sure that those figures must be wrong because he said he knows radiation causes cancer and the radiation in Denver is much higher than in New Orleans, for example.

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 But the figures show that the cancer rate in New Orleans and San Francisco is much higher than in Denver. He said that just must be a mistake.

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 The insurance companies have had the figures for over a hundred years. Part of the thing is that the radiation that you get at high altitudes is less harmful because of its lower energy transfer.

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 It's high energy cosmic rays basically go through you without causing much damage. But the altitude causes the Haldane-Bohr effect.

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 Everyone knows about that in physiology that it explains what happens when you breathe and when the oxygenated hemoglobin reaches your tissues down in the capillaries.

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 The Haldane-Bohr effect explains the fact that oxygen, when it sticks to hemoglobin, changes the hemoglobin molecule causing the carbon dioxide to come loose.

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 When you have a high concentration of carbon dioxide down in your capillaries, the carbon dioxide sticking to the hemoglobin causes the oxygen to come loose and become available to the tissues.

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 Strangely, there has been almost no research, just maybe a couple of dozen papers applying that Haldane effect to other proteins.

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 But in the case of hemoglobin, the molecule just happens to be in the right position to transport oxygen and CO2 in the blood.

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 But a few people who have tested other proteins find that that's a general effect.

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 The Haldane-Bohr effect applies to proteins in general. When there's a lot of carbon dioxide, it basically changes the pH or the isoelectric point of the protein, making it less accessible to oxygen.

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 That in itself is a protection against the attack of oxygen against proteins.

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 But more than that, the particular group that carbon dioxide sticks to on a protein, such as hemoglobin, is an amino group.

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 Any amino group in your body, whether it's on your DNA or your enzymes or the so-called hormone receptors, these all contain amino groups, which when there's enough carbon dioxide, it will stick to those groups.

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 In the absence of carbon dioxide, other stuff will stick to those, such as glycation.

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 Various free radical fragments of unsaturated fats will tend to stick to those and derange the hormones.

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 Insulin, for example, is a different hormone in the presence of CO2 or in the absence of CO2.

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 Everything in your body is different when it's well saturated with CO2.

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 You can't suffer the side effects of diabetes, for example, if your proteins are well protected.

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 As many other instances, I find this yet another example of reorganising my mind to get to grips with the fundamentals of it.

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 I think we all think about carbon dioxide as being the bad guy.

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 I think that's a problem. It's a bit like the common misconception that sugar is the bad guy or the common misconception of saturated fats is the bad guy.

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 CO2 and carbon dioxide, how does that confirm more benefits than oxygen when we all think that oxygen is the life-giving molecule?

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 In 1940, someone did a survey of organisms, including a great variety of bacteria and amoebas and things that all require oxygen to live.

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 But he found that they can't live more than one generation if they aren't exposed to adequate carbon dioxide.

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 Even the obligate respiring oxygen-dependent organisms need carbon dioxide.

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 He concluded that it's more important as a life-supporting element than oxygen is because all organisms require it and not all organisms require oxygen.

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 Also, Dr. Wheat, you explained to us just a few minutes ago how if you increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream,

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 that tends to knock those oxygen molecules off the hemoglobin so that the tissues can pick up the oxygen.

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 Yes. For example, in the heart, when you increase the amount of carbon dioxide in your blood, you increase the actual amount of oxygen in the heart.

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 It delivers the oxygen to the heart. But more important than that is that it delivers it in the optimum way.

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 It makes the oxygen go to the right places in the heart because it's having the same effect on the heart proteins that it has on the hemoglobin.

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 And it retracts the electrons so the oxygen doesn't stick where it shouldn't.

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 The electrons go directly to the oxygen down the electron transport chain and the electrons are prevented from deviating and getting off and attacking the polyunsaturated fats,

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 which is what causes the bad oxidation that people take.

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 That's the free radical damage, isn't it, that people know about?

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 Free radical damage is where the electrons are free to interact with things that cause harm,

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 whereas the presence of an increased amount of CO2 actually prevents those electrons from becoming wild and reacting with harmful or good tissues.

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 Yes, the essential electron moving cofactor, NAD and NADH, which takes electrons from sugar or fat and moves it to the respiratory system.

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 In the presence of carbon dioxide, that is more oxidized, meaning that the oxygen is doing its work better in the presence of CO2.

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 So basically, just to try to recap for our listeners here, in case you haven't heard it before, CO2 is referring to carbon dioxide.

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 So we breathe in oxygen-rich air and our hemoglobin in our blood picks up that oxygen from our lungs and carries it to our tissues.

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 And what is happening at higher elevations is that you have an increased amount of carbon dioxide in relation to the amount of oxygen.

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 So the carbon dioxide is at a higher level at higher altitudes than it is at lower altitudes.

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 In the body, there's less oxygen pressure pushing the carbon dioxide out of your body,

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 and so your body retains a higher concentration as you go higher in altitude because of the lower oxygen pressure.

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 And you can see that in the cornea becomes more compact at higher altitudes,

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 and people often notice that their nearsightedness improves by two or three diopters.

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 Wow. Okay, I read that there was an article that you were, I'm pretty sure you published it,

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 explaining how nocturnal cornea edema can result in bulging, not that bulging, but swollen eyes,

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 because the cornea has to absorb oxygen from the air, and when we're awake, where our eyes are open,

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 and that diffusion is happening and the oxygen is getting into the cornea, but at night time, our eyelids are closed over our corneas,

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 and our cornea swells because it's not able to get oxygen.

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 And they've done experiments putting goggles over people and infusing extra carbon dioxide into the goggles,

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 and that makes the oxygen get used more efficiently in the cornea where it's depending on the outside for its energy supply.

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 The carbon dioxide helps the oxygen get in and tightens up the energy structure of the cornea.

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 Well, why are hospitals so concerned, especially in emergency rooms, you know, they test your oxygen saturation by putting this meter over your fingertips,

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 and then they give you oxygen to breathe.

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 Well, for one thing, I've tested those things on my finger, and everyone feels really good when they have a 99% saturation,

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 but I've noticed that when I'm feeling really the best, I can get mine down to 89%.

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 All right.

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 And I've thought about that a lot and watched the different conditions that cause it,

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 and hyperventilating will cause the saturation to go up, and having just cold fingers will make the oxygen go up.

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 If you're not using the oxygen, it doesn't do you any good to have your hemoglobin saturated if you're not using it.

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 So those finger meters aren't really very informative unless you know what temperature your fingers are at.

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 And then I've talked to the doctors specializing in giving oxygen to stroke patients,

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 and way back in the 1930s, Jendell Henderson became famous for providing resuscitation equipment to fire departments,

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 which provided 7% carbon dioxide with the oxygen.

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 Wow.

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 That was based on physiology, and it worked.

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 Okay.

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 And the same for altitude sickness.

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 I have friends now who take a bottle of carbon dioxide with them when they go to Bale for high-altitude skiing.

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 Okay.

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 And when they start getting mountain sickness, they take some carbon dioxide.

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 And traditionally, people have been using acetazolamide for altitude sickness.

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 That causes you to retain your own carbon dioxide at the higher level.

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 Okay.

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 So let's go over the health benefits of increasing your CO2, either artificially or when you live at high altitude,

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 how that actually dampens down the inflammatory--because I understand it's the inflammatory reactions that happen inside the body

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 that are controlled by an increase in carbon dioxide.

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 So do you want to just cover how the inflammatory process is quelled?

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 Yeah.

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 Imagine if you've ever hyperventilated just for fun,

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 sometimes it will make your hands drop into a cramp or make your toes curl up in a cramp.

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 The losing carbon dioxide when you hyperventilate is the same as living at a very low altitude.

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 There's too much oxygen and too little carbon dioxide.

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 And the cramping effect is just the first immediate thing.

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 It also causes a cramping of your blood vessels, shutting down the diameter of your blood vessels,

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 and it can cause fainting by cutting off the blood supply to your brain.

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 But it also causes the capillaries to leak, even though they're tending to close down.

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 They also become leaky and let water leak out because the carbon dioxide at the proper concentration holds your platelets,

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 causes the platelets to retain their histamine, serotonin, and other inflammatory substances.

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 When you hyperventilate, your platelets leak these and make your blood vessels leak, causing edema.

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 And if you have something else causing lactic acid to increase other than hyperventilation,

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 you get the same effect that lactic acid displaces the carbon dioxide,

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 makes your platelets and red blood cells leak, and starts the inflammation cycle.

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 And one of the ways that the carbon dioxide is working, one of dozens of different beneficial effects,

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 is that it combines with the ammonia, which is produced by stress and protein metabolism.

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 And in combining with the ammonia, it stops the stimulation of the formation of lactic acid.

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 Ammonia accelerates the formation of lactic acid, so carbon dioxide is directly turning off the production of lactic acid.

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 Now, lactic acid is a thing that we feel when we exercise and our muscles cramp.

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 Yeah, and it triggers the release of a whole series of mediators of inflammation, also of fibrosis.

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 And so they're now finding that when they're doing abdominal surgery,

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 if they blow in a fairly concentrated carbon dioxide gas, they'll suppress the formation of fibrosis and adhesions.

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 Wow, because it decreases inflammation.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.000
 Yeah.

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 Now, how about... sorry, sorry.

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 So the common myth that when your muscles hurt, it means that they're growing bigger and that's better is...

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 I mean, the common, not the common myth, the common belief is a myth.

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 Well, yeah, anything that injures your muscle, the lactic acid is probably long gone, but the damage persists.

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 And the damage involves the loss of CO2, and that causes the uptake of water, swelling, and so on.

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 And the swelling and injury does cause the muscle to get bigger, but not healthier.

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 So this is another misconception again, athletes.

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 Athletes, you know, we always look at people doing the Olympics

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 and we just imagine them to be the most supreme fit human beings that there are.

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 And yet, actually, they're in a very stressful state doing what they do.

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 Yeah, there have been studies that found that very well-trained athletes

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 typically go around with an elevated lactic acid in their blood even days after their last exercise.

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 They've suppressed their carbon dioxide and become sort of habituated to increased lactic acid,

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 which has those long-range harmful effects.

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 Yeah. Okay.

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 Let me just let people know that who perhaps have just tuned in.

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 You're listening to Ask Your Ob-Doctor on KMUD Garboville 91.1 FM.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:54.000
 And from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o'clock, you're invited to call in with any questions,

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.000
 either related or unrelated, to this month's mixed topic of elevation,

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000
 the protective effects of CO2 and its many health benefits.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:07.000
 And we're joined once again, and very pleased that Dr. Ray Peat is with us,

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:12.000
 sharing his research and his knowledge of this and many other topics.

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 I wanted to ask you, Dr. Peat, why people who go to oxygen clinics

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 and have intravenous oxygen or oxygen therapy,

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 why they feel the health effects that they do, the positive health effects that they do,

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 and how that interacts with human physiology.

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 There are different treatments that are called oxygen therapy.

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 They range from simply injecting a solution of hydrogen peroxide

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 or exposing the blood to ozone or to ultraviolet light.

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 But generally, the treatments are exciting the white blood cells and causing them to --

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 some of the effects of excited white blood cells are beneficial.

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 They become more aggressive when they're slightly injured.

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 But they also release substances that trigger the stress hormones, ACTH,

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 leading to activation of your adrenals, and activated adrenals will combat other inflammations.

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 So it's a way of turning on your anti-inflammatory, anti-stress hormones.

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 But there are better ways to generally suppress your inflammatory responses.

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 For example, things that increase progesterone will decrease cortisol,

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 causing in the long run much better consequences.

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 So people might experience an increased immune system or decreased inflammation.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.000
 Yes.

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 The carbon dioxide activates the phagocyte process of various cells in your blood,

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 and that's a part of normal repair and regeneration.

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 The baby, for example, gestating in the uterus is completely free of germs normally,

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 but it still has very active phagocytes,

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 which their activity is supported in proportion to the carbon dioxide tension,

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 which is usually high in the uterus.

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 And that activity of the phagocytes is part of the developmental process.

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 When a tissue is changing from one form to another,

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 the old form has to be digested and removed to make room for the new form.

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 So the phagocytes will eat up the old cells.

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 Yes.

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 And so the carbon dioxide, high concentration of it,

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 supports the developmental process of cleaning up the junk.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:22.000
 Would any of this phagocytosis be involved in destroying cancer cells or other--

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 Oh, yes.

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 It's essential, and it's probably one of the main things lacking.

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 The cells enter the cancer, but they are unable to produce the right results

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.000
 because the cancer is producing lactic acid,

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:45.000
 which knocks out the process supported by carbon dioxide.

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.000
 And scar formation, too.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:58.000
 The developing fetus is practically resistant to forming scars

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:05.000
 only at a later stage when it's being exposed to environmental fats that the mother eats

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000
 will it form a scar.

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:12.000
 But healing is ordinarily scarless in the early fetus.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:19.000
 And it's the things causing loss of carbon dioxide mostly

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.000
 that inhibit the phagocytes which should clean up the collagen.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:31.000
 Is it in part due to the decreased fibrosis that increased CO2 would also bring about,

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:34.000
 leading to less scars or is it not the same?

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.000
 Yes, I think that's a big part of it.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:48.000
 Excess oxygen causes malfunction of a lot of things.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:54.000
 Displacing the carbon dioxide changes everything systematically,

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:01.000
 so it causes many derangements, not just the lack of phagocyte activity.

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:07.000
 It reminds me now of a spring that we have here in California called Vichy.

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.000
 It's just in Ukiah, down on Highway 101.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.000
 I know we've been there several times.

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:19.000
 We always enjoy going there because those mineral-rich spring waters are highly carbonated

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:25.000
 and you get this thing called a reactive hyperemia after you've been in the water about five minutes

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.000
 where you get this flushing, your skin turns pink and you feel warm,

00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.000
 even though the water is probably only about...

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:32.000
 96 degrees.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.000
 No, is it 96?

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.000
 Yes, it's 96.

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.000
 Well, okay, and it doesn't actually feel that warm.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000
 When you get in it, first of all, it feels a little cool,

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.000
 but when you're in it, you start warming up because you get this vasodilation going on at your skin surface.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.000
 If you have a giant plastic bag like a leaf bag or something,

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:56.000
 you can fill it with pure carbon dioxide and it'll be at room temperature or even colder

00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.000
 if you just blew it out of a tank.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:06.000
 When you step into that, you instantly feel warm and your skin turns pink.

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:13.000
 When you're in a hot spring, even though the water doesn't dissolve a very high concentration of CO2,

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:18.000
 still you absorb it against a gradient.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:24.000
 There can be many times higher concentration of CO2 in your tissue,

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:31.000
 but it moves from a lower concentration into your body as if your body were pumping it in,

00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:35.000
 but it's really a matter of being more soluble in your body.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:43.000
 Just as an example, do you think you're getting more benefits from CO2 by bathing in Vichy

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.000
 or sitting in a trash bag full of CO2?

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.000
 It's more fun to bathe in a hot spring.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.000
 I know, I know, it might be more fun, but actually, from a very standard point of view,

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:59.000
 do you think you're probably going to get more CO2 doing a CO2 therapy in a sealed container than you would be...

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:03.000
 Yeah, I think so. Just don't put it above your neck.

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.000
 It's a lot cheaper.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.000
 Don't try to breathe it.

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.000
 Okay, good.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000
 Well, you're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor, K. Amelie Galbraithville, 91.1 FM.

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.000
 We're joined by Dr. Ray Peat, and the lines are open from now until 8 o'clock

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:25.000
 for anybody who'd like to ask any questions either related or unrelated to this month's topic of altitude and CO2

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:27.000
 and the health benefits of high elevation.

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:32.000
 So, unless we get any callers, Dr. Peat, I will just look out there as a caller.

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.000
 Oh, someone is calling, but I have a question.

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:39.000
 How come it is when people have weakened lungs, high altitude bothers them?

00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:51.000
 Oh, well, that's really the only condition that is bad for a high altitude.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:59.000
 When they've done studies, for example, in New Mexico, mortality from heart disease as well as cancer decreases

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:03.000
 for every thousand feet of higher altitude,

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:10.000
 but asthma is the one condition which is a problem at higher altitude.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:22.000
 But in Mexico City, there have been surveys through Mexico in which actual incidence and suffering from asthma

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.000
 increases as you go down in altitude.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:33.000
 So, if you have asthma to start with, you don't want to go to Leadville right away.

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:40.000
 But as a matter of developing the problem, living at a high altitude,

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000
 you're much less likely to develop it than living at sea level.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:49.000
 Okay, good. All right, I think we've got some callers on the line, so let's go.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.000
 You're on the air.

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:51.000
 Good evening.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.000
 Good evening.

00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.000
 Great topic.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.000
 I have a question, and it has to do with mountaineering.

00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:58.000
 Is that with him?

00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.000
 Sorry.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.000
 In the 6'2", maybe.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.000
 Caller, can you turn your radio off, please?

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:11.000
 Oh, sure.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:12.000
 Just getting a little feedback.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.000
 Is that better?

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.000
 Let's go. Let's try that. Yeah.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000
 Okay.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:25.000
 Mountaineering in the 6' to 8,000-foot range, maybe even up to 11,000 feet,

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:35.000
 normally we use a technique of a big abdominal exhale when we're feeling the effects of the altitude.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.000
 But what you're saying is you should breathe into a bag instead and breathe in your own CO2?

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:48.000
 Yeah. On one of the Everest expeditions, I think it was on Everest,

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:56.000
 they were treating people by putting them in a big plastic bag with oxygen,

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:01.000
 and that's a fairly standard way to treat them, and it works.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:08.000
 But they found that it was the carbon dioxide that they were breathing out that was accumulating in the bag,

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.000
 which was the really therapeutic agent.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:12.000
 Uh-huh.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:21.000
 So that would be a good technique to maybe test, is to have a paper sack and to exhale into it,

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:26.000
 or a plastic bag and to exhale into it and take maybe 30 seconds of deep breaths into it.

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.000
 I think so.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:36.000
 People with high blood pressure, I've seen several of them in a day or two bring their blood pressure down 30 points

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.000
 just by bag breathing repeatedly.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.000
 Okay. Well, thank you. We'll try that this winter.

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:49.000
 And also, Dr. Peat, you've mentioned before that you can breathe if you tightly seal the bag around your mouth.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:55.000
 You can breathe in and out of that bag for a couple minutes if it's a big bag before you start to feel uncomfortable,

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.000
 and just that small amount of bag breathing can increase your carbon dioxide,

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:06.000
 which means a lot of your cells work better and you're getting more oxygen into the cell.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:15.000
 Yeah. How the adaptation works is that each time you increase the CO2 to an uncomfortable level,

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:23.000
 it's suppressing the lactate a little bit and lowering the adrenaline and various other factors,

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:29.000
 free fatty acids and many things that cause you to hyperventilate.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:42.000
 And so you're basically curing your tendency to breathe too much by adapting to repeated exposures to extra CO2.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.000
 Okay. Now, on to this kind of divulge a little bit,

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.000
 but this is why I said at the beginning of the show to people that will be listening,

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:54.000
 there are many different factors influencing the healthful benefits of CO2.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:00.000
 I just wanted to bring out a little bit about people with, again, this is another topic that's been opened up,

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:06.000
 and we've seen it ourselves that people who may be totally normal on a blood test for a thyroid panel

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:12.000
 actually show definite low thyroid status when they're tested with other methods

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.000
 that were traditionally used as markers of low thyroid.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:22.000
 So for people with low thyroid, I understand that their CO2, their carbon dioxide state is generally lower anyway

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:28.000
 because they have an increased adrenaline, and adrenaline depresses carbon dioxide.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:37.000
 So having a better thyroid will increase your likelihood of retaining CO2 and decrease your adrenaline.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:43.000
 Yeah, and there are many, many side paths to that.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.000
 For example, the thyroid helps to lower the estrogen level,

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:59.000
 and estrogen and many of the related factors tend to cause you to hyperventilate even to the point of having alkalosis.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:07.000
 And diabetes, even though supposedly the diabetic isn't using glucose,

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:20.000
 typically a diabetic has elevated lactic acid, and carbon dioxide makes a big effect on the diabetic lactate.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:27.000
 Yeah. Okay, so another reason not to aerobically exercise like running and jogging and cycling

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:33.000
 and all those things that would increase your respiration, increase your oxygen, decrease your CO2, increase your adrenaline,

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:38.000
 all of those things are pointing out to be more negative than healthful.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:41.000
 Yeah.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:49.000
 Yeah. Okay, so the kind of exercises for people that do exercise a lot and really think they get a lot of benefit for it,

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:55.000
 and I'm not saying they don't, I mean psychologically I know there's a huge benefit in being active and being fit

00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:01.000
 and enjoying a healthy lifestyle, the actual exercises that would be more beneficial for a person

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.000
 would be?

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:16.000
 I think mild muscle building activity as well as anything that's fun, enjoyable activity that doesn't cause discomfort.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:31.000
 But there have been studies of old people with their muscle mitochondria apparently had genetic damage, loss of DNA,

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:40.000
 but by several weeks of concentric exercise, just contracting the muscle against resistance,

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:49.000
 they repaired the mitochondrial DNA to have restored mitochondrial function.

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:57.000
 But the eccentric exercise where your muscle is forced to lengthen while resisting,

00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:07.000
 for example, when you're walking downhill, that's the kind of exertion your muscle is having, eccentric stretching.

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:11.000
 That damages the mitochondria.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:17.000
 So this is why you suggest pushing the bicycle up the hill and riding the bicycle down the hill.

00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.000
 Yeah.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:22.000
 Or throwing weights or loading firewood.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.000
 Yeah.

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.000
 Throwing pieces of firewood.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:33.000
 Okay. How about the, I didn't know this, that the effects of elevation, say if you go up to a high city for a couple of weeks

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:40.000
 and you come down, the effects of that, positive effects of that increased altitude with the increased CO2 can actually linger for several months.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.000
 Yeah.

00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.000
 How does that work?

00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:47.000
 The Russians were the ones that really pioneered all of the--

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:48.000
 Good old Russians.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:58.000
 Yeah. After Jan Del Henderson was forgotten, the Russians took up the study and they found that

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:05.000
 if an animal was kept at high altitude for a few months, when it went back to low altitude,

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:15.000
 it lived the rest of its life retaining about twice as many mitochondria as it had at lower altitude,

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.000
 meaning it was basically twice as efficient.

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:19.000
 Wow.

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.000
 And it could produce twice as much energy.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:25.000
 Because the mitochondria, for those people that are listening, the mitochondria is the kind of the factory in the body,

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:31.000
 the powerhouse is that utilize fuel and produce energy and do all the different things that--

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:37.000
 Yeah. And it's failure of the mitochondria that causes the degenerative diseases.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:47.000
 Otto Warburg 80, 90 years ago was showing that mitochondria fail in cancer.

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:55.000
 And Russians, the same groups that were showing that high altitude causes increased mitochondria,

00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.000
 produced cancers artificially in rats.

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:06.000
 And the ones that were left at low altitude, 100% of them died.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000
 Right.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:14.000
 And the others that were taken to 17,000 feet, 50% of them spontaneously threw off the cancer.

00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.000
 Wow. Wow. I just find it incredible.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.000
 The longer I'm alive and the more I find out, I mean, you know,

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.000
 the beach and the seaside in Victorian England was the place to go to.

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000
 It was, you know, it was expensive.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:32.000
 All the health benefits were well touted of breathing, you know, the sea air and everything else.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.000
 It's actually one of the worst things you can do.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.000
 You need to go to a high elevation if you want to get some positive effects.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.000
 So how come that the insurance companies--

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.000
 this is another startling fact that makes it pretty obvious for people to see what's going on.

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:48.000
 The insurance companies are losing money if they make a bad-- if they hedge a bet badly.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:53.000
 Now, so the insurance companies are usually pretty smart because they don't want to lose money.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:59.000
 So for them to know 100 years ago that the benefits of altitude were such, how come--

00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:03.000
 how come yet again, you know, we on the streets don't-- it doesn't trickle down to us.

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.000
 It's just another glaring example of how they want to keep the stuff from us.

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.000
 And when you go into the hospital--

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:12.000
 When you go into the hospital, they want to CAT scan you, they want to X-ray you, they want to give you drugs.

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.000
 No, they want to put an oxygen mask.

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.000
 They want to put an oxygen mask on you.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:16.000
 Yeah, exactly.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.000
 The people who should be getting carbon dioxide are--

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:27.000
 I've talked to some of the doctors who were doing it, and they said,

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:38.000
 "But wouldn't that cause acidosis or various things that just don't apply?"

00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:52.000
 They reason a certain way from the textbooks, and they don't look at enough of the actual studies like Yandel Henderson's resuscitation studies.

00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:58.000
 Well, can you tell us, Dr. Peat, about those people that live at very, very high altitudes and their lifespans?

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:04.000
 You were telling me about some lifespans of-- typical lifespan of 130 to 150 years old.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:19.000
 Yeah. I think it was about 1950, the first time I heard about it was a Peruvian who was brought to tour the United States as an oddity.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:23.000
 Newspapers had a picture of him, a little tiny guy.

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:29.000
 The church records showed him as being 187 years old.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:36.000
 After a couple of weeks visiting around the U.S., he was sent back to Peru and died shortly after that.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.000
 Wow. Oops.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:47.000
 And Old Parr in London, he was a guy in the country that was famous for being 150-something,

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:59.000
 and the king had him brought to London to study, and he died shortly after living the high life in London.

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.000
 At sea level.

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:03.000
 Yeah.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:09.000
 Well, my mother and I just went to Mishwaukon, the mountains of Mishwaukon in Mexico,

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:14.000
 and we were staying in Pátzcuaro, which is a town at 7,200 feet in elevation.

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:19.000
 And for the short seven days we were there, the health benefits were very noticeable,

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:23.000
 and I'm looking forward to them lasting for more than one week.

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:29.000
 So, Dr. Peate, you're suggesting that if someone spends a week to a month at a higher elevation,

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:33.000
 then the health benefits will last for how long will they last?

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:40.000
 Oh, after a month, probably a year and a half, something like that.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:50.000
 A friend of mine who was there at that altitude last winter for, I guess, almost two months,

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.000
 lost 20 pounds while he was there.

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:53.000
 Wow.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:54.000
 Oh, yeah, that was the other thing.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.000
 Their food is so delicious.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:01.000
 Their wonderful corn tamales and their chepos and corundas.

00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.000
 And I ate probably two to three times more than I normally eat, and I came back weighing the same weight.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000
 And my mother did the same because we were so hungry.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.000
 It sped up our metabolism.

00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:14.000
 We were so much more hungry, and we ate so much more food, and it was so delicious,

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:18.000
 and we went out for meals here, or we were invited there.

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.000
 And she came back, and she had lost weight.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:26.000
 The Indian Army noticed that their soldiers, when they were sent to Kashmir

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:31.000
 or other very high-altitude places, lost weight very quickly.

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:41.000
 And so they've done a lot of studies on how to keep the soldiers' weight up at high altitudes.

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.000
 Wow.

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:49.000
 Well, it's quite incredible that even just down to the way your skin and your hair feels, it's very different.

00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:51.000
 You do feel different at a high altitude.

00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:57.000
 And, you know, a lot of people were concerned that we would suffer breathing difficulties.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:03.000
 We hiked up this old ancient volcano every morning, and that was a two-hour hike, an hour up, an hour back,

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:11.000
 and we didn't notice any change in our breathing as far as being at 7,200 feet.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:19.000
 The conventional physiologists for years have noticed what they call the lactate paradox,

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:29.000
 which is that you can work full force at a high altitude without producing lactic acid.

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:33.000
 And it's not really a paradox.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:42.000
 It's that the oxygen is not at a high enough concentration to displace carbon dioxide,

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:47.000
 so the carbon dioxide is taking care of the lactic acid.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:53.000
 Okay, so in increased carbon dioxide states, oxygen is utilized way more efficiently and way less of it,

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:59.000
 if any of it is actually available to react in free radical formation.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:02.000
 Yeah, it works.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:13.000
 One of the ways is that carbamino effect, simply protecting any amino group from attack by oxygen.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.000
 And these are on proteins.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:28.000
 Yeah, but it also simply activates the enzymes that direct the electrons to move from glucose or fat down to oxygen.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:35.000
 It creates sort of a greased pathway for the electron movement.

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:50.000
 And if you block the carbon dioxide or oxygen, the NAD reflects the increased access to electrons,

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:55.000
 and those electrons tend to diffuse out through the cell,

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:01.000
 causing attack of polyunsaturated fats and genetic material and so on.

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:08.000
 Well, at least most people listening have probably heard of oxidation and the production of free radicals,

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:14.000
 and this is why you want to eat your fresh fruits, because they're rich in antioxidants and they protect you.

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:20.000
 So basically, the carbon dioxide is acting like an antioxidant, a very powerful antioxidant,

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:26.000
 preventing any of those electrons from forming free radicals and reacting with things they shouldn't be.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:36.000
 During surgery, hospitals have noticed that their patients often had severe lung damage from free radical oxidation,

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.000
 from ventilating them too hard.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.000
 So now they practice what they call permissive hypercapnia.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:49.000
 They under-respirate them, let the carbon dioxide accumulate,

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:56.000
 and it has an antioxidant protective effect.

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:03.000
 In horses, there were studies in which they caused the blood by changing the atmosphere.

00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:14.000
 They raised the blood carbon dioxide concentration three times normal from 30 to 100.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:24.000
 And at that level, there were no free radicals detectable in their bloodstream, where normally there is a certain amount.

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:34.000
 So it's as though we're designed to live with much more carbon dioxide than is available at this altitude.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:45.000
 And people studying the early embryo before implantation between the zygote and the blastocyst stage,

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:59.000
 traditionally they were culturing them in an atmosphere with 5% carbon dioxide and maybe 15% or 20% oxygen.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:14.000
 And they were having poor results, but someone tried increasing the CO2 and found that at 10% or 15% CO2 and 5% oxygen,

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:25.000
 much more CO2 than oxygen, that the blastocysts were more vigorous, more of them survived, and implanted better.

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:39.000
 So even at the crucial stage of early embryo development, carbon dioxide is the crucial factor, much more important than oxygen.

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:48.000
 Okay. Now, I'm always trying to promote people's free access, free access to good information and how they can best help themselves.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:55.000
 So any good ways of increasing your CO2, the best ways of doing it?

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:04.000
 Shifting your diet away from the polyunsaturated fats is, I think, the basic thing.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.000
 So how does that help?

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:26.000
 The polyunsaturated fats interfere with the enzymes that send electrons to oxygen and shift away from glucose metabolism to fat metabolism.

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:36.000
 You can show that when they give intravenous fat to people in hospitals to increase their calories.

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:42.000
 Within a few minutes, their ability to use glucose is suppressed.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:52.000
 The fats simply block the enzymes that produce the oxidized glucose.

00:52:52.000 --> 00:53:05.000
 And when you burn glucose, you get much more carbon dioxide per unit of oxygen used or fuel used.

00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:21.000
 And so at high altitude, a person uses their oxygen more efficiently, and they're more reluctant to burn their stored fats.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:35.000
 And anything you do to increase the carbon dioxide will tend to protect you against the mobilizing your fats and creating that diabetes-like state.

00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:46.000
 So just to explain for our listeners, polyunsaturated fats are those fats that are liquid at room temperature apart from olive oil, which is mainly monounsaturated.

00:53:46.000 --> 00:54:00.000
 And they include the long list of vegetable oils, soy, canola, safflower, cottonseed, corn, sunflower, hemp seed, flaxseed, fish oil.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:02.000
 Those are all polyunsaturated fatty acids.

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:12.000
 Yeah, there is a big push now to sell fish oils in place of those seed oils that were promoted for 50 years.

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:19.000
 And now they're shifting over to fish oils because they don't produce some of the toxic effects of the seed oils.

00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:30.000
 But part of the reason they don't do that is that they are so unstable that they break down even before they reach your bloodstream.

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:38.000
 A very high proportion has become the free radical fragments that inhibit your immune system.

00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:52.000
 And even though in the long range, they increase your infections and suppress immunity, in the short range, they seem to be anti-inflammatory just by their suppressive effect.

00:54:52.000 --> 00:55:09.000
 But some of the people who are promoting those very oils, DHA and EPA, for example, they've been saying that your baby will be smarter if you put it in their baby food.

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:25.000
 But in the baby food, these things are so unstable, they're about 20 times more broken down into toxic free radicals than even when you get them in the normal food form.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:38.000
 And some of these people believe that the women who ate fish oil and the other highly unsaturated fats would have more intelligent fetuses.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:56.000
 And so they presented sounds to the gestating baby to see how quickly they could habituate and respond as if they recognized the sound.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:05.000
 And they were predicting that the women with the highly unsaturated babies would have the smartest fetuses.

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:17.000
 And they found just the opposite, that the women showing evidence of a deficiency of fatty acids had the babies that behaved most adaptively.

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:21.000
 So they had a deficiency of these toxic fatty acids.

00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:29.000
 Yeah. And when the baby was born, they measured their head circumference, length and weight.

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:33.000
 And they were growth retarded as well as behavior retarded.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.000
 Oh, goodness. And the babies that were born to women who ate a lot of fish oils.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:42.000
 Yeah. And 30, 40 years ago, animal studies showed the same effect.

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:51.000
 They fed one group of rats cocoa butter or I think it was safflower oil.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:05.000
 And the ones that got safflower oil were stupid and had small brains, the babies and the others were better learners with bigger brains that had the cocoa butter.

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:11.000
 Well, there you go. So there's lots of research out there showing all of these things we've talked about tonight.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:17.000
 And thankfully to Dr. Peat, he digs up a lot of this research and brings it to our ears.

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:20.000
 So thank you very much, Dr. Peat, for sharing all of this with us.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.000
 We really appreciate your expertise.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:26.000
 I think I think our engineer has a question for you, Dr. Peat.

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:28.000
 I just I have a couple of questions.

00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:34.000
 One is prior to 1920, I heard that when corn oil got out in the country, that there was more heart attacks.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:38.000
 I don't know if that's true or not. And the other is butter and coconut oil.

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.000
 Are those two the ones I should be eating? Because that's the ones I do.

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:52.000
 Yeah. If you eat lots of butter or cream, it can make you fat, but it is protective against the oxidative degenerative diseases.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:05.000
 But the coconut oil tends to stimulate your use of oxygen so fast that it protects against even obesity and milk and milk fat.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:11.000
 The milk contains other things that stimulate your safe use of oxygen.

00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:19.000
 And so if you're going to use the cream, it's better with milk rather than just in the butter form.

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:24.000
 And also, I think your question about the heart attacks was that prior to 1920,

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:30.000
 there's studies that show that heart attacks were much, much less, less prevalent.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:36.000
 And so it was once that once people started eating these polyunsaturated fats in the corn on the big Missoula corn oil push,

00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.000
 that's when the heart attack incidents was on the increase.

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:49.000
 Yeah. And the the age pigment is formed from the polyunsaturated fats of corn oil and soy oil and such.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:59:00.000
 And this has been identified repeatedly in the atherosclerotic plaques that are involved in heart disease.

00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:07.000
 So there are direct connections between the polyunsaturated fats and heart disease as well as cancer.

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:11.000
 So there's lots of this research out there. And you can visit Dr. Ray Peat's Web site.

00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:20.000
 It's www.raypeat.com. R-A-Y-P-E-A-T.com.

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:25.000
 There's lots of articles there, plenty of articles about subjects that we've talked about this evening

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:30.000
 and a lot of other articles that we haven't covered, but well worth checking out.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:39.000
 Fully referenced scientific articles, folks, not not witch doctoring or hearsay, but validated scientific articles.

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:45.000
 So the witch doctors didn't have some things right to have some stuff, but we're talking talking to people who want facts.

00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.000
 OK, so go to Raypeat.com and get some facts.

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:56.000
 Thank you for listening to Ask Your Doctor. Until next month, August the 20th, August the 20th,

00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:59.000
 the third Friday of August, third Friday of every month.

00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:04.000
 Keep enjoying the warm weather and we look forward to being with you then.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.000
 Thank you, Dr. Peat. Thank you.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:34.000
 And thank you, listeners. Good night.

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