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polsci-010102-suppression-of-cancer.vtt
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WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000
If you have any questions for Politics and Science, you can direct them by email to politicsandscience@madriver.com.
00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.000
That's politicsandscience@madriver.com.
00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:19.000
Politics and Science presents the viewpoints of its participants and does not necessarily reflect the viewpoints of any other person or organization.
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000
Hello and welcome to Politics and Science. I'm your host, John Barkasin.
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:32.000
Today we feature an archive of my interview of Dr. Raymond Peat, PhD, courted at WGDR circa 2001.
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:39.000
In this show, he discusses the remarkable story of Dr. Stefan Durevic and his cancer treatment known as probiazine.
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He also covers the heroic but ultimately fruitless efforts by Dr. Andrew C. Ivey, who was at the time one of America's most prominent scientists.
00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:54.000
Dr. Ivey attempted to give this promising treatment the clinical testing that its positive findings warranted.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:04.000
In case you're interested in the subject, the meticulously written book that tells the story in detail is by Herbert Smith Bailey and is called K-Probiazine, Key to Cancer.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.000
That's spelled out at the end of the show.
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:17.000
In this show, Dr. Peat also discusses the suppressed work of an earlier brilliant cancer researcher called Dr. William F. Koch, MD and PhD, and his successful cancer treatments.
00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:25.000
If you're interested in Dr. Raymond Peat's work, many of his writings are available at his website, Raypeat.com.
00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:28.000
And now, once again, here's Dr. Raymond Peat.
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:39.000
A.C. Ivey, these people all overlap for various reasons, partly because several of the alternative health, especially alternative cancer treatment people,
00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:49.000
were working on essentially the same ideas and they were all attacked by the established forces that were working on different assumptions.
00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.000
What year was this?
00:01:50.000 --> 00:02:02.000
Oh, Koch started his work, I think one of his publications was 1911, another 1914, and by the '20s he had a clinic going in Cleveland.
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He was a professor of medicine and chemistry and he was the first person to take seriously for biochemistry the work on free radicals of Moses Gomberg,
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who demonstrated that free radicals really exist.
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They aren't just a hypothesis that exists only on paper,
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but Moses Gomberg showed that highly colored chemicals appear when you can get free radicals who separate in solution.
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And the color is because the electron that is no longer paired is free enough that it absorbs light in the visible spectrum.
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And so that's one of the simple ways to test an unpaired electron, is that suddenly the solution goes dark.
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And even chemists didn't take Gomberg seriously.
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In Russia he was a major influence, but in the United States for probably 40 or 50 years free radical chemistry just couldn't take off.
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The industrial chemist, I think it was DuPont himself, maybe not, but anyway it was the head of one of the early plastic companies,
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told William Koch that he had better be quiet about the idea of applying free radical chemistry in medicine,
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because people didn't even understand it in organic chemistry.
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And they were going to say he was talking about fantasies if he talked about the free radical basis of biology.
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And it was around 1950s that the instrumentation became available to demonstrate that free radicals really did exist in living tissue.
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And what was the name of the scientist who ran for president in, I think, the Peace and Freedom Party in the 1970s?
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Very commoner.
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He was one of the first people to demonstrate free radicals existing in living tissues.
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I didn't know that.
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When did the free radical theory start?
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Well, about 1905, I think.
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1900 to 1905 was when Moses Gomberg was demonstrating them.
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But immediately Koch was putting it into theoretical thinking about what cells are doing.
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And he applied it to the concept of polymerization and blood clotting as his first thing.
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And he knew that in healing a wound or a cancer, blood clotting is one of the first things that happens.
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And the clotting abnormalities are characteristic of cancer.
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And it turned out that for places like DuPont, the polymerization was, in fact, a very important practical industrial principle using the free radical.
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But Koch anticipated even industrial thinking within just a few years of starting to work on it.
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He was applying it theoretically and practically to devise both explanations for disease and therapies.
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He seems like quite a brilliant man.
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Yeah, so quick to apply knowledge that was very clear and definite.
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Other people couldn't accept it because it just didn't seem to fit the low standard that was common in chemistry and all branches of science and biology at that time.
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The free radical, sorry I'm pretty ignorant here, but the free radical theory, that must have come out of the atomic theory of electrons.
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Yeah, ordinary chemistry on paper, they would show an atom coming loose or an atom with other atoms attached to it coming loose from another group and taking one electron away.
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Each atom had been contributing an electron to a pair that made a stable compound.
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On paper, they could take away a group with one electron and allow it to combine somewhere else.
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They just couldn't believe that that could really exist in a watery solution, for example.
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But how Moses Gomberg first did it was with, I think it was triphenyl ethane.
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Anyway, it had three large carbon rings attached to one tiny little molecule in the center.
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The tendency of the benzene ring to repel because they were placed too close together and the whole group wasn't very soluble in water.
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The force of the water and the closeness of these large groups, if you diluted, if you kept adding water to a solution of this compound,
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as it got very highly dilute, the color would suddenly change from clear to a deep purple.
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As you got it diluted enough, the groups would be able to fall apart from each other and exist freely in solution.
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Anyone that knew homeopathy, which a well-educated doctor did in 1900, knew that the principle of homeopathy was that some compounds become chemically more reactive when they're highly diluted.
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So it was natural for someone with a medical education to see the importance of this chemical principle.
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But not many people who had studied homeopathy as well as classical medicine also studied chemistry, which Koch did.
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The first time I heard about Koch was, I think, 1943 or '44.
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People were circulating little mimeographed newsletters about the scandal of how he was being persecuted by the FBI and so on.
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The history of his two trials, it's been written up. Koch himself told some of the stories.
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These stories have never been refuted. They're pretty well documented.
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He said that criminals who tried to kill him later were proven to be, at that time, agents of the FBI.
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The public didn't start hearing of mob FBI connections or CIA connections until the Church Committee in the '70s brought out the stuff.
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But it was something that had been going on for a long time.
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Is that pre-Hoover?
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Oh, no.
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That was Hoover.
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Hoover was there for about 50 years.
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Yeah, he was quite a gangster.
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Why were they going after him at that point?
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Well, his clinic was so successful in Cleveland that it was bringing a lot of attention to him, even though he followed DuPont's advice.
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Maybe it wasn't DuPont, but anyway, he followed this industrialist's advice and didn't explain the pre-radical basis.
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He was just having objective results that brought a lot of attention to his clinic.
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He had tried to publish all of the details in the period 1917 to 1921.
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He submitted papers all over the world, but the standard medical journals wouldn't accept pre-radical chemical explanations for any biological events.
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So the government then was claiming that he had a secret method, simply because he couldn't have journals to publish it.
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They called it a secret quack method.
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But years later, after I had studied books thoroughly, and I had also been studying Otto Warburg's work and Albert St. Georgi's work on cancer,
00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:08.000
I noticed dramatic parallels between the work St. Georgi was doing all the way through from the '30s when he got the Nobel Prize,
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all the way down to I think it was about 1973 or '74 when I wrote St. Georgi.
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I outlined over about two pages the amazing similarities between Koch's work that he had described in his book, done between 1910 and 1925 or so,
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and what St. Georgi started doing in about 1932 and continued to the 1970s.
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I outlined this amazing set of parallels and said, "Is this just coincidence, or were you influenced by W.F. Koch?"
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Because in all of St. Georgi's work, I couldn't find a single reference to W.F. Koch.
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He answered that he had the highest respect for the work of W.F. Koch, which obviously meant that since he had never referred to it in print,
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that he knew what had happened to Koch and he didn't want it to happen to him.
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Maybe we could go back a little bit and talk about Koch's cancer therapy and how he was persecuted.
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Who was he threatening at the time?
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I think it was the FDA itself that accused him of violating the law by selling something that they said couldn't cure cancer.
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So they had it analyzed and couldn't detect anything in it, but the machinery...
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They had his cure analyzed?
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Yeah.
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They said it was distilled water, and he made some in court according to his procedure,
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and he took this highly colored material and diluted it and was so dilute that it looked like distilled water.
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He gave them the sample and had them analyze it, and they said it's distilled water.
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So the jury could see that their own eyes had seen stuff go into it, and the government was telling them it wasn't there.
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So twice he was acquitted, but he decided it was time to get out of the country with people trying to kill him
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and keeping him constantly in court instead of doing science.
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So he spent the rest of his life after 1944 in Brazil.
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Are there any remnants of his work still operating in Brazil?
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Yeah.
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I guess about 15 years ago I talked to a very old man who had worked with him,
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and I don't think there's probably anyone still living who is directly connected with him.
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He died, I think, about 1968.
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And what was the distilled water solution?
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Was it homeopathy?
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Well, these people that worked with him said that it was done by judgment.
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He used a red platinum electrode and passed alcohol vapors, not an electrode but a reactor.
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It was heated electrically to just the right color of red,
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and then he passed a stream of alcohol vapor over that,
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and at that temperature the alcohol polymerized into a water-soluble chain of molecules
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which were unstable enough that they would release the individual,
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either carbon, oxygen, hydrogen group, or a small chain of those carbon-oxygen groups into solution.
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And that was the primary reagent.
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He also used benzoquinone at high dilution, but that was just an easy-to-make, lower-potency thing.
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The primary reagent was this thing which required the judgment of knowing just how red your platinum reactor had to be.
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And so people who had seen him do it could repeat it, and there were people in Brazil,
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might still be there, I suppose, their lab, have passed the technique along.
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I haven't heard from them for years.
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And how did this affect, how was it in the anti-cancer therapy?
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He, well, one of his early publications had to do with the muscle spasms
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that typically follow removal of the thyroid gland,
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and the parathyroid tend to be removed along with the thyroid if the surgeon doesn't make a special effort,
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even though that was used as the explanation for why thyroid surgery causes these muscle spasms.
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Even the most careful surgeon who takes out the thyroid,
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even when he leaves the parathyroid, typical for the patient to suffer these spasms.
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:50.000
And anyway, Koch experimented with the removal of just the parathyroid glands
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:58.000
and found that if you give any salt electrolyte, such as potassium, sodium, magnesium, or calcium,
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.000
if you give it generously, you prevent the spasms.
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:10.000
And he was arguing that the parathyroid gland was involved in detoxifying compounds that derive from ammonia,
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:16.000
guanidine and methylguanidine, and that these chemicals are poisonous
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.000
and known to cause seizures and muscle spasms.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:27.000
And he could demonstrate that he was causing those to be passed off in the urine by increasing the salt intake.
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.000
And that was published, I think, in 1917.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:34.000
But then A.J. Carlson, a very powerful professor at the University of Chicago,
00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.000
and his group decided that one hormone has only one action,
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.000
and that they basically proclaimed that the parathyroid hormone has the action mobilizing calcium,
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.000
and that in a calcium deficiency, you get the spasms.
00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:56.000
But there are just terrible problems with that, the whole setup,
00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:03.000
because their description of what's happening to calcium turned out to be without foundation.
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:12.000
It was all a hypothetical theory that attempted to describe this hormone in terms of one singular action on calcium.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.000
And that one turns out not to be the way they thought it was,
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:22.000
and still no one has reverted to consider Koch's explanation.
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.000
But anyway, Koch explained the toxicity.
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.000
These compounds, they're similar to what ammonia does,
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:40.000
but the amino or ammonia group occurs in many chemicals that produce seizures and spasms and overstimulation.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000
We now call it excitotoxicity.
00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:50.000
And ammonia and serotonin, just a tremendous range of amino compounds, have this action.
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:56.000
And the carbonyl group that was the essence of Koch's treatment,
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:01.000
whether the carbonyl was in his polymer that he made on his platinum reactor,
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:07.000
or whether it was the carbonyl that was part of the benzoquinone molecule,
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:13.000
it was this which Koch explained as drawing electrons to itself,
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.000
away from the electron donors of the ammonia compound.
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:24.000
And during this time, not only was free radical chemistry an underground current,
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:30.000
the acid theory, Gilbert Lewis, this was happening at the same time.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.000
Lewis was a professor and chemist.
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.000
I think his theory came out in 1914,
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:45.000
and it was a general theory of acidity and alkalinity in terms of electron withdrawal or donation.
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:53.000
And it was exactly compatible with Koch oxidation reduction explanation of how his catalyst worked.
00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:01.000
But again, the Lewis theory, which was totally general as a description of acids and bases, couldn't take on.
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.000
People brought out the Brunstad-Lowry theory of acids,
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:11.000
which is what everyone now teaches that acid is a hydrogen ion donor.
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:16.000
pH is a description of the concentration of hydrogen ions.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:21.000
And even though it's not a general theory, because there are acids which contain no protons,
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:26.000
no hydrogen ions, this is the standard theory of acids and bases.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:31.000
So Lewis's theory of acidity, which was true and general,
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:35.000
was displaced by basically erroneous theory,
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:40.000
which is now everyone's chemical textbook description of what an acid is.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.000
They're still saying it today.
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.000
Yeah. And just totally ignoring the implications of Gilbert Lewis's good theory,
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:56.000
and especially the implications it has for biology and medicine and biochemistry.
00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:10.000
But St. Georgi was essentially looking for evidence of Koch's high-energy promoter of oxidation as an electron acceptor in physiology.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:22.000
Koch had postulated that benzoquinone was useful because there was a quinone molecule in the cell that this was a close imitation of,
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000
and would therefore activate.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:35.000
And it wasn't until 1950 or so that it was discovered that there in fact is an essential oxidizing quinone in the cell, in the mitochondrion,
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.000
and it's so ubiquitous that it's called ubiquinone.
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:47.000
But at the time Koch was saying this, analytical chemistry wasn't refined to the point that it could go beyond theory,
00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.000
which had therapeutic results.
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:53.000
And so they said it couldn't have therapeutic results because it isn't there.
00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:00.000
But St. Georgi appreciated the logic, and so he was working on the respiratory chemistry,
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:07.000
and in the process accidentally discovered things like big parts of the Krebs cycle of the mitochondria
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.000
and ascorbic acid and so on.
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:15.000
But this was really in the process of working on respiration itself.
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.000
Is this what he received the Nobel Prize for?
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:26.000
Yeah, for his discoveries that led to the Krebs cycle and ascorbic acid and so on, respiration, muscle studies too.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.000
The muscle action was another one of Krebs things, you know,
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:41.000
the methylguanidine causing muscle contraction by donating electrons to a system that should have the electrons withdrawn by the oxidative catalyst.
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.000
And this became clearer and clearer in St. Georgi's work,
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.000
why he was working both on muscle contraction and oxidative metabolism.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.000
At the time, it seemed like he was working on two separate lines.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:08.000
But it is the explanation of St. Georgi's whole career, basically, because he later became explicit in showing why the donation of electrons to muscles causes them to contract.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:19.000
And another theory besides the proton theory of acids, another theory that just becomes an obstacle to understanding is the membrane theory of cell function,
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:24.000
which explains cell electricity in terms of ions and protons.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:33.000
And St. Georgi was working on the direct involvement of electrons and respiration as the primary thing that regulates those electrons.
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:43.000
And in consciousness, for example, consciousness disappears instantly when oxygen is no longer available to accept electrons,
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:48.000
before there's any detectable change in cellular energy level.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:55.000
And St. Georgi was focusing on these things that really work, really explain cell physiology,
00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:01.000
and basically ignoring the silliness about protons and cell membranes and so on.
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:11.000
And one of St. Georgi's experiments involved adding electron donor chemicals and electron acceptor chemicals to a living muscle.
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:23.000
And if the donor and acceptor were related to each other in terms of their oxidation potential, the muscle would contract in their presence.
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.000
If these two molecule groups were not tuned to each other, the muscle wouldn't react.
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:39.000
And this was about as close as you can imagine coming to verifying what Koch was saying about the electron acceptor and donor,
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:47.000
that the donating an electron to a muscle system or any cellular system causes it to go into the active state,
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:55.000
and the high-energy oxidant causes it to stabilize and go into a resting state.
00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:04.000
And for all of these people, Warburg, Koch, and St. Georgi, cancer and allergy and muscle spasms and seizures
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:11.000
were all examples of the activated state in which there are excess electrons.
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:18.000
And oxidation was the basic answer to restoring the cell to a stable resting state.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:24.000
This puts the cancer problem in a different evolutionary light.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.000
These people were seeing cell division as the basic state of any cell,
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:43.000
that at a point in evolution, oxidative respiration came in and made it possible for cells to stop dividing long enough to form part of a functioning multicellular organism.
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:51.000
And so the reversion to cancer became simply interference with the ability to respire on the cellular level.
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:57.000
So the problem with cancer and spasms and seizures is that your cells are just not getting the oxygen.
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.000
Or can't use it.
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:05.000
Warburg's definition of cancer metabolically was that it's aerobic glycolysis.
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:12.000
Ordinarily, glycolysis is a process similar to fermentation in which sugar is used very wastefully,
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:19.000
and it happens in the absence of oxygen because metabolism is very efficient.
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:24.000
And glycolysis happens normally only when there's no oxygen because it's so inefficient.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:31.000
And when you block the oxygen apparatus or the supply, you get intense glycolysis.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:38.000
And so if it's the apparatus rather than the supply which is blocked, this is what happens in disease.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.000
And so this is aerobic glycolysis versus anaerobic.
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.000
Anaerobic is the normal glycolysis.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:51.000
Aerobic glycolysis is evidence that the respiring organ isn't working right.
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:56.000
And so all these people were on this different track of looking for the causes of disease and cancer.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.000
Why do you think they were so shunned by the powers that be, the medical people at the time?
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:09.000
Well, in the case of Koch, I think the way Koch tells the story is just that they couldn't understand.
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:19.000
And he actually makes sort of almost a case for rational behavior on the part of the government and the medical association.
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:26.000
Just in terms of their being badly educated, badly motivated authoritarian people,
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:32.000
they simply couldn't see and didn't want to learn what these people were saying.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:40.000
My professors all the way through college and graduate school treated Otto Warburg's work as a strange,
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:46.000
faint idea of this very famous, powerful German, even though he got the Nobel Prizes
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:54.000
and is recognized as solving both ends of the essential oxidative cellular mechanism,
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:03.000
applying that to cancer, which he did very early, was simply put down as character flaw in this otherwise great scientist.
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.000
But it seems, I can see maybe they wouldn't understand and maybe they shunned him, shunned him,
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:15.000
but to try to kill Dr. Koch, it actually shows that they were threatened by him.
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:22.000
Yeah, I think the way to understand it really, even though Koch does tell the story in his book,
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:29.000
I think the best way to get insight is to read Herbert Bailey's book about probiazone,
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:33.000
because here they were contemporaries.
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:39.000
Andrew Ivey was one of the biggest establishment doctors in the country,
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:47.000
the founder of several medical associations and vice president and head of the medical school at the University of Illinois.
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:54.000
He was chosen to help found the Naval Medical Research Institute in Bethesda
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:58.000
and ran it for a year during the Second World War.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.000
The board of the American Medical Association, which he had belonged to,
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:11.000
chose him as America's representative to the Nuremberg trial to testify on universal medical ethics.
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.000
He was simply one of the biggest of shots in American medicine.
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:23.000
And when this Yugoslav doctor who had a cancer treatment, he thought, came to the United States,
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:29.000
he quickly found out who the big shot was in medicine and took his idea to Andrew Ivey,
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:38.000
who was an intelligent person and had been thinking along the lines that the cancer is the loss of some restraining process.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.000
He, I don't think, was quite up to the speed of Koch and St. Georgie,
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:47.000
but he understood the thinking that was fairly common at that time,
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:53.000
that there might just be a lack of restraint that allows cells to start dividing.
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:57.000
And this line of thinking has been demonstrated over and over.
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:03.000
For example, many people don't think about why our liver is as big as it is and no bigger
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.000
when it has such a capacity for producing new cells.
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:12.000
If you cut off half an animal's liver, it will regrow the liver to the right size.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:18.000
And if you join two rats together in their circulation and remove the liver of one rat,
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:25.000
the liver of the second rat grows to be twice its normal size so it can handle the circulation of both animals.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:33.000
And this is a well-documented theory that it was these chemicals of restraint were called "palones,"
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:38.000
P-A-L-O-N-E, meaning a restraining influence.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:45.000
And it can be demonstrated in the cornea and in the skin and any organ that is able to divide.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.000
If you take an extract of that and add it to the growing culture,
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:57.000
cell division stops specific to each tissue so that the organism knows how much of a given tissue or organ it should have.
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.000
And when that amount of calone is produced, cell division stops.
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:09.000
So the absence of that has been considered an obvious influence in abnormal tumor production.
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:14.000
And people were, at that time, many people were working on tissue extracts,
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:22.000
trying to get that sort of stuff in a form that would be general enough to apply to a tumor of different tissues.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.000
And some people would extract tumors.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:31.000
One of the main lines of thinking was to extract it from urine or from the kidney or from the liver,
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:34.000
something that had a general regulatory function.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.000
St. Georgie was extracting it from human urine, and he called it "retin" versus "promine,"
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:46.000
"promine" being the amino promoter of growth and "retin" being the restraining influence.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:55.000
And for example, Leonel Strong, who developed the mice colonies that are in common use,
00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:00.000
he developed strains that 100% of them will get breast cancer.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:08.000
And with using extracts of liver, Leonel Strong showed that he could not only cure the cancer of the individual,
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:14.000
but even that individual's descendants for several generations would be free of cancer.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:23.000
So he was demonstrating hereditary imprinting as well as the cologne principle of tissue extract curing.
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.000
He was getting the cologne straight from the liver?
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:31.000
Yeah, he had a time when he was using shark liver, but I talked to him,
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:36.000
and he said that he thought that any kind of liver would have the active material.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000
And I experimented with beef liver and so on.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:49.000
And you get a lot of the substances that are similar to what Coke was working with in the kind of extract that you do.
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:54.000
Anyway, Andrew Ivey knew about this other line of research,
00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:02.000
and so when the Yugoslav doctor said that he had vaccinated horses with an organism that causes tumors,
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:09.000
actinomyces bovis, and produced a tumor and then extracted the blood of the horses,
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:16.000
let the blood clot and then extracted it the way these other people were doing liver and blood and urine and so on.
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:22.000
The technique I learned from Leonel Strong was to use absolute ethanol,
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:27.000
grind up the liver into a fine powder in the absolute ethanol,
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:34.000
and then evaporate the alcohol from the material you've extracted and then resuspend it in water.
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:40.000
That was exactly the technique that Ivey learned from the Dureviks,
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:48.000
and it was a standard technique for getting things that are slightly oil-soluble and slightly water-soluble.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.000
It forms a sort of emulsion when you take it up in the water.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:00.000
The Durevik got his attention because he knew that it was in principle biologically reasonable,
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.000
and so he immediately was interested in testing it,
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:11.000
and he took patients whose doctors said they had only about one or two month life expectancy
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:15.000
because they were so seriously sick with cancer.
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:20.000
In these people who were on their last leg, he saw a dramatic result,
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:25.000
and at that point he wasn't looking for a cure,
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.000
and he was using very tiny doses like 10 micrograms per patient,
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:37.000
but one injection would cause a very high proportion of the patients to have dramatic improvement.
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:46.000
He reported this after just about two years of tests in which a lot of the patients did end up dying,
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:51.000
and the responses to one or two injections were so amazing that Ivey said,
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:58.000
"This stuff has to be studied in better ways as there have to be double-blind studies," and so on.
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:05.000
This book by Herbert Bailey documents in just the most horrifying way
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:10.000
the ways in which the power structure started acting.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.000
One after the other, Andrew Ivey's physicians were taken away from him.
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.000
He was fired from his vice presidency, and then his professorship,
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:24.000
he was kicked out of even the scientific organizations that he had founded.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:30.000
One after the other, they would threaten him and say, "You'll be punished if you don't give it to us,"
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:35.000
and he would say, "No, it should be tested publicly," and he would lose another job,
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.000
and he went from being at the very top of American medicine
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:44.000
to being basically a community college teacher for the rest of his life,
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:52.000
and as late as 1964, he was interviewed and asked if he didn't regret having stuck by his insistence
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:58.000
that the stuff should be tested, and he said no, he still thought it should be tested.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.000
Good for him.
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:01.000
Well, and that's just because he wanted to test it.
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.000
He wasn't saying it was the cure-all or anything.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.000
No.
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.000
Well, it makes you wonder what the motives are.
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:13.000
Well, the book, a good place to start, even before reading the book,
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.000
is to look at the congressional record from the 88th Congress
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:24.000
and the material that Illinois Senator Paul Douglas introduced into the congressional record,
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:31.000
the sworn testimony and a very ordered presentation in a compact form
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:35.000
documenting the things that Bailey says in the book,
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.000
and among those are naming people of two big drug companies
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:47.000
and the treasurer of the American Medical Association as offering him as much as $2.5 million,
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:52.000
offering the Durex $2.5 million for the rights of the chemical,
00:34:52.000 --> 00:35:00.000
and they refused, and the offers are still existing documents of the offers,
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:06.000
and basically a conspiracy, and he said it in print and over and over,
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:09.000
like the senator in the congressional record said,
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.000
"If this wasn't true, why aren't these chemical companies and the AMA officials