Reviving or forking EL

[SasoLithops]

Hello EL revival team!

I will try to keep it short and to the point:-)

We have agreed to start this discussion as some of us feel we can get EL back on the map.

During this time 8 of us have gathered at the moment willing to help brainstorm how to do this and make it more sustainable.
I wanted to write my idea first but when talking to some of you guys I feel your ideas will be much better. Here is short introduction of us all. We mostly know each other so only basic introduction.

I think we all agree that we should start by Polygon continent. At this time just thinking out loud, maybe we could in future also have Astar continent and maybe ask their community if we could be part of Astar DApp staking initiatives for increased sustainibility. Having Ring on Astar ZkEVM where Polygon is major helping factor could be next logical step. I think we have at least two people who are very connected with Polygon Dustin and Furqan who can help with reaching out to them. No need further introducing them as we all know them for their in depth knowledge and connections in the space.

We also have Bruno who is a developer and OG to the game( he also did develop before www.evolution-labs.netlify.app dApp for improved breeding experience and global apostole statistics and pair analysis) and Liu Tiny who was product manager of EL and knows all the people and all the details of the game.

There are also Darwinia CM Jesse also OG player of the game and with connections in Dotsama spaces and Darwinia GM Partnership Dude(PD) who also has great passion for doing this and am sure will bring great ideas to the growth side of game.

I am sure Asturion a passionate reseacher player of the game will join us in debate.
And at last me a player of the game who was always impressed with this simple yet educational idea of the game.

I am sorry if I missed something important feel free to correct me or add. I have at most respect for each and every one of you as all of you have proven trustworthy to me and passionate Web 3 participants.

Summing up what we know so far:

• Tiny talked to Perror(he overlooks current EL and is making it open source as we speak). He said they will keep the features following:
  1. Land auction/exchange
  2. Apostole auction/exchange/breed
  3. Mine resources/Farming
• Perror also told me after open source they still plan to provide some support for EL
• Tiny also provided link to funds on Polygon EL DEV multisig https://github.com/evolutionlandorg/evo-deploy?tab=readme-ov-file
  To my knowledge it has 1.46M Ring which should be enough to cover initial costs(Let us know what you think)
• For governance just read in TG Jesse proposes we use Snapshot which is great idea
• Minting KTON in game which is proposed by Dustin which was the reason KTON did so great in 2020 would be much easier now with formation of KTON DAO. We could do proposal there to push KTON out of falling spiral.
• PD asked me to include in this Dustins idea that RMRK is also deployed on Polygon and we can upgrade specific contracts to RMRK to make it modular. If I may add maybe Dakota and Yaki (Invarch/YoudleDAO) can give some advice on this as well they use RMRK standard as well. And on Astar EVM chain.
• We could apply for grant on Polygon(if we develop on Polygon chain)
• I think it would be great to showcase MSGPORT/Helix in EL. It would be great to have some Cross chain NFTs (just idea thinking out loud by Denny on meeting) I also thought we could apply for a small grant from Darwina treasury for RING to use it for resources liquidity/liquidity incentives. Talking to some, they found this "controvertial" since EL already received grant and they think EL is dead and should stay dead, But I still think this would be good if we want to showcase Darwinia tech it is like really small marketing investment. Well maybe Polygon grant could cover this if we successful there.
• One of the options that Denny also said we can fork EL to not take on burden of past EL economics. Maybe calculation cost of servers vs econimc burden could be calculated.

I hope I didn't miss anything if I did please write it yourself.
I am really looking forward to the discussion.

Hope more EL entusiasts or new entusiats join us in this quest to rebuild EL a community driven project.

[wnepnq]

@SasoLithops this is Bruno.

I had an idea for a new game that could make use of the resources from EL (SIOO, HOO, WOOD, FIRE and GOLD).

The idea is to have a competitive MMO RPG game in which players would need to buy an Apostle to get started.
The unique attributes of apostles would impact its initial combat capabilities and the players would be able to level up these attributes. I know it's possible to do it on blockchain but we could keep it simple and keep the changes on the game's database for now.

About 20 years ago, I discovered a MMO RPG game which I felt in love with it. The game is called Tibia.
The game was really addictive due to its unique mechanics and the aggregated value to the game assets. The penalty for dying in the game was also one of the worst (if not the worst) I ever experienced in any game. Maybe that's why it was so addictive.

Tibia was great but the development of game took a direction which not all players liked, so then some of the players (including me) were involved in an open source initiative that would re-create the game server and client, allowing anyone to have their own tibia server/client with customized game experiences.
That led to the creation of OTServ.

OTServ is the short for Open Tibia Server. The community around it involves a bunch of git repositories, forums, servers, blogs, sites and more.

Official Tibia servers have the peak of 15,000 daily players. OT servers (listed publicly) has the average peak of 25,000 players, any time you look at it.

If we fork the OTServ open source code for both the server and client, we can start as a Open Tibia server, in order to get engagement from the community and later on we could have an independent (but still open source) code base that would make the game unique.

We can change anything we want in the game as we will be working with a forked version.

You can search videos from OTServ or official Tibia gameplay and compare with customized games like PStory (a Pokémon themed OT server). There are a lot of other themed games that were based on OTServ that are proprietary and are not listed.

Here is a video of PStory, showing how customizable the game could be:
https://youtu.be/1sXmK_TtMqw?si=BSpzhJmV1_PsYI-u

The development is made through C++ and the code base is really simple. All the customizations can be made through simple XML files and Lua Scripts.

I am currently working on a POC to get the game working on a web browser by exploring the WebAssembly technology.
All major browsers support it currently.

I’ll keep posting updates on this discussion. As soon as we get an initial working version for the game, we can use the governance (snapshots voting) system to decide the new features/customizations that will be added to the game.

[gravitiny]

You've always been awesome!

[cryptohustler101]

Hello, Dustin here. I'm one of the original players of EL and was appointed as a moderator for our TG and Discord early on. I was drawn to the game's mechanics, which utilize early bridging and cross-chain interactions. The whitepaper sparked my interest, especially elements like the death of apostles, war mode, and lands on the perimeter as access points to other chains.

While the introduction of five chains has expanded the game's horizons, the high gas costs on Atlantis/Ethereum have posed a significant barrier to entry. To make the game more accessible, we need to address this issue. One possible solution could be to fork assets into Arbitrum or implement L2 capabilities while keeping assets on Ethereum, as this could potentially mitigate the high gas costs. (Reference: https://mcp3d.com/).

Atlantis could thrive with some revisions. As for Dawning/Heco, the chain was abandoned after a bridge hack (https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/11/22/justin-sun-confirms-htx-heco-chain-exploited-after-100m-in-suspicious-transfers/). We should distance ourselves from this chain and fork it. Astar zkEVM is emerging as a popular connection point for zk chains, and I'm personally involved with Polygon and various zkEVM initiatives. Forked items could be reimbursed through snapshots of land, tokens, and items.

As we continue to explore new possibilities, I believe there's room for innovation in our gameplay. Introducing elements like RMRK on zkEVM, KTON staking, ETH staking, or even Astar dApp staking through EL could add a new layer of excitement to the game. These features would not only provide incentives for players but also promote cross-chain interactions, enriching the overall gaming experience. Each chain could offer specific resources needed for construction, encouraging players to explore different chains. We could even introduce the concept of custom buildings requiring specific resources from different chains, further enhancing the game's depth and complexity.

For apostles, using RMRK with our contracts can create modularity and compatibility with other projects, making our PvP game more expansive. Maintaining the value of investments across all chains is as important as honoring the capital put into each. Chains like Dawning, Eden, and Columbus should retain their value, while Atlantis and Byzantine, initially cheaper in USD, could see revaluation through these improvements.

[gravitiny]

Hello, to ensure the game can launch smoothly once handed over to the community, I have some ideas:

1. Minimize Initial Scope: The downfall of EL was its grand narrative and mismatched manpower. Although we now have 8 people, our development capacity is still limited. We should start by building a minimal viable product (MVP) with a core gameplay loop designed by EL. This initial design can then be expanded upon. For example, as Bruno mentioned, an RPG where players use elemental tokens to strengthen characters and defeat increasingly powerful enemies. Other features can be temporarily set aside (e.g., element production, land trading). New users can buy elements, and we can add the element collection system later.

2. Focus on One Network: Polygon is undoubtedly the most suitable network at present. Starting with one network will allow us to use its success to expand to other networks or revive previous ones, creating a positive feedback loop. Besides Astar, Darwinia, and TON could also be suitable networks. Leveraging mini-programs can enhance the gaming experience for users.

Let me know what you think!

[cryptohustler101]

Polygon would be the best for entry. I am personally involved with them and can easily be bootstrapped as we connect with the community through my connections. Also, on top of the game, showcasing its use cases on Polygon would be a great POC for other chains and communities to adopt.

[SasoLithops]

Love the ideas so far @wnepnq @gravitiny @cryptohustler101🏆
I am very divided between starting on Astar or Polygon. Astar because of RMRK, Polygon because of connections. Guess we will have to decide on one to make it a simple start. Lightly in favour of Polygon asI think Astar will take on more development...

[cryptohustler101]

Polygon also has RMRK; I spoke with the team, and they are compatible already. Honestly, Polygon has the best chance out the gate, and Astar has a huge chance for growth.

[SasoLithops]

Oh great. What do you guys think then. Probably focus on Polygon first, Astar next?

[SasoLithops]

Guys do we move debate/action to September as probably many off to holidays during summer?

[SasoLithops]

[SasoLithops]

If we want to do something, now is the time.

[gravitiny]

Cool!

[SasoLithops]

To restart debate to see if any interest among us. Do we have any developer in community that can help at begining to calculate costs if we revive it? @wnepnq @gravitiny @perrornet @cryptohustler101 We agreed asking for grant in Polygon(most desired) or Astar Soneium could probably be next logical step. We need this calculation first to move things forward imho.
I think ideas regarding next steps will be easier as we all have some ideas there, development side will be tough....

[avgur770]

Here's a short plan of where to start

1. Choose chian (probably polygon, its cheap and fast with a lot of users)
2. Rethink tokenomics structure
3. Discuss upgrading, adding and editing features

[avgur770]

Should we vote on which chain?

The sooner we decide the sooner we can get to the next steps

[cryptohustler101]

Polygon would be the best as I am very connected with them and can get us on AMA's spaces with them.

[avgur770]

I like it as well, the chain has so many dapps to choose from if we would want to integrate some yields in EL

[cryptohustler101]

I would be interesting to see some interests in cross chain staking opportunities that would be fun to play with on Polygon but stake them on Darwinia if that was possible.

[avgur770]

Evo land upgrade concept:

Evo land assets

Land - has mines that mine resources

Mines - contain resources and apostles are needed to mine them

Apostles- mine resources from mine, and manage other apostles, and battle vs opponents

drills - are used by apostles to mine

The concept is an idle miner game

Assets Tokenomics:

• Resources - unlimited supply (earned from mines)

• kton (Gov token) - 1 trillion
10% - old token (claim)
5% - Voting ( 0.5% a year, yearly halving)
5% - incentives
5% - team
15% - investors
30% - Lp ( 1% a year, yearly halving)
30% - Resources burning ( 1% a year, yearly halving)

• Drill - eth, gems or resources are used to buy, and there's a limited supply available daily

• Apostles- bread but the nore breads the weaker they are

• Land - up to dao

revenue distribution:

30% - Kton/eth
20% - Voting
50% - Treasury

[avgur770]

What do you guys think?

Anything to change or critique?

[SasoLithops]

Thank you for your contribution. I am busy with KTON DAO atm so can not reply long. That was written very fast. So many questions?

How would this idea attract users? Where would we get funding?

What tokenomics? What token? On L2? You mention ETH a lot? Why extra token?

Why we need gov token 1 trilion?

What old token?

[avgur770]

The idea with kton token (the gov token)

1. is a v2 upgrade with 1 trillion supply
2. Give 10% to v1 kton holders

Not extra token just upgrade/replace

It should all be on polygon, because it has plenty of users and protocols

I mentioned eth twice

1. Users spend eth to buy assets like drills and land (it will give revenue in eth rather then kton or ring because eth can handle the selling pressure to fund expenses)
2. A kton/eth lp: some emissions and revenue go to reward this pool
3. I was also thinking to make an eth Staking pool and and the treasury takes a percentage as well

Funding I didn't mention but it was mentioned by @cryptohustler101 that he has connections, we can also use the new v2 token to raise funds

I think users should come organically through word of mouth and social media like Twitter Spaces

[SasoLithops]

If I understand correctly you want to mint new let's call it KTON2 token with 1 trillion(why that number) supply? 100 billion would be airdropped to KTON holders. Is that what you mean with upgrade/replace?

I like Polygon too. Soneium as well.

Original plan was to involve Ring and Kton not ETH. But makes sense what you are saying to fund expenses we will definitely need stables or top MC altcoins.

Let's see what others have to say.

[avgur770]

Ya that's the idea

Here's 2 scenarios:

1b / 100m mc = $0.1 token
$10 = 100 tokens

1t / 100m mc = $0.0001 token
$10 = 100,000

In scenario 2 an average user feels early and will be willing to buy more

It's a way of memeifying the token to make it more appealing 😉