Code Table Request - remove 'reproductive' from age class

[DerekSikes]

reproductive should not be listed in the options for 'age class' - this is a caste designator, not an age designator. We already have a attribute called 'caste' to handle this.

[Jegelewicz]

@DerekSikes do you need all of the attributes that are currently age class = reproductive changed to caste = reproductive?

@dustymc as far as I can tell, @DerekSikes (UAM:Ento) is the only one using this term. I say we clean it up as he has suggested.

[dustymc]

Yes, UAM:Ento only.

https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctcaste doesn't contain the value (and doesn't seem to me like it should, but that's what code table issues exist to discover), there will need to be a CT request or alternate path.

There are tools which can handle this, feel free to use them and let me know when I can remove the CT value!

[DerekSikes]

Thanks & yes, adding the term 'reproductive' to the caste table would be good & then deleting it from the age class table. If all my records with age class = reproductive could be changed to caste=reproductive instead, that'd be great!

[Jegelewicz]

@dustymc @ArctosDB/arctos-code-table-administrators I propose we do exactly what @DerekSikes is asking. I cannot find an issue requesting the addition of 'reproductive' to age class, possibly because it was added before that process was in place? In any case, UAM:Ento is the only user.

@DerekSikes the one thing we DO need is a definition. Can you provide one?

[DerekSikes]

reproductive: an adult eusocial insect capable of reproduction of unspecified sex (queen/gyne/drone).

…

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 12:36 PM Teresa Mayfield-Meyer < ***@***.***> wrote: @dustymc <https://github.com/dustymc> @ArctosDB/arctos-code-table-administrators <https://github.com/orgs/ArctosDB/teams/arctos-code-table-administrators> I propose we do exactly what @DerekSikes <https://github.com/DerekSikes> is asking. I cannot find an issue requesting the addition of 'reproductive' to age class, possibly because it was added before that process was in place? In any case, UAM:Ento is the only user. @DerekSikes <https://github.com/DerekSikes> the one thing we DO need is a definition. Can you provide one? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#6569 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACFNUM262ZVYCNJYPUDHP5DXTAJMTANCNFSM6AAAAAA22QL5FQ> . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: ***@***.***>

-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *Derek S. Sikes*, Curator of Insects, Professor of Entomology University of Alaska Museum (UAM), University of Alaska Fairbanks 1962 Yukon Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-6960 ***@***.*** phone: 907-474-6278 he/him/his University of Alaska Museum <https://www.uaf.edu/museum/collections/ento/> - search 393,654 digitized arthropod records <https://arctos.database.museum/uam_ento> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Interested in Alaskan Entomology? Join the Alaska Entomological Society and / or sign up for the email listserv "Alaska Entomological Network" at http://www.akentsoc.org/contact_us

[dustymc]

I can't see any way that this is a caste. It's not age either, but there's a whole (sad and abandoned) Issue for that, and somewhere in there https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctattribute_code_tables#life_stage - 100% denormalized, I think! - appeared. The last thing we need is a third arbitrary pigeonhole for this sort of data, suggest this be merged and https://github.com/ArctosDB/code-table-work/issues/62 prioritized.

[Jegelewicz]

I know it isn't the final say, but perhaps we should be thinking about data aggregation and how our data will play with others'.

Darwin Core Term	dwc definition	Arctos Attribute
dwc:lifeStage	The age class or life stage of the dwc:Organism(s) at the time the dwc:Occurrence was recorded.	age_class
dwc:caste	Categorisation of individuals for eusocial species (including some mammals and arthropods).	caste
dwc:reproductiveCondition	The reproductive condition of the biological individual(s) represented in the dwc:Occurrence.	reproductive data

And looking at that - I think that all of the UAM:Ento uses of age class = reproductive should just get moved to reproductive data = reproductive.

Fair? @DerekSikes @dustymc

[dustymc]

isn't the final say

It should be! WHY are we making up our own stuff in 2023?! (But we can't adopt bare terms - eg '"native" meaning whatever you think it should mean' is an illusion of "good data" without any actual constraints or even guidelines. We should be following concepts, not terms.)

(And on that note - has anyone checked what age class means in Arctos?)

moved to reproductive data = reproductive.

Maybe, but that's free-text so would be a bit of a downgrade.

[Jegelewicz]

but that's free-text so would be a bit of a downgrade.

Maybe we need a term that includes a controlled vocabulary?

reproductive condition - The reproductive condition of the biological individual(s) represented in the catalog record.

Code table terms:
reproductive - Insects: an adult eusocial insect capable of reproduction of unspecified sex (queen/gyne/drone). Use a more specific term if known.
pregnant - https://github.com/ArctosDB/code-table-work/issues/29
testis position - https://github.com/ArctosDB/code-table-work/issues/3

There have also been discussion of lactation and perhaps other things within the RANGES group. Just throwing this out there...

[DerekSikes]

reproductive: an adult eusocial insect capable of reproduction of unspecified sex (queen/gyne/drone)

is a caste of unspecified sex. Not a sterile worker. I see no problem with having less-precise and more-precise caste terms. Obviously if the sex becomes known the best practice would be to replace 'reproductive' (or add) with 'queen' or 'gyne' etc.

[Jegelewicz]

@ArctosDB/arctos-code-table-administrators @DerekSikes has asked that we move this information to caste. @dustymc has made his opposition known. We are trying to get the age class table cleaned up and this is one of the things that just doesn't belong can we agree on how to handle it?

[dustymc]

agree on how to handle it

I thought this was all mapped to life stage? (But 'reproductive' is likely a synonym of 'adult' - method is really important....)

[DerekSikes]

reproductives are castes of social insects that have sterile workers. This belongs in Caste

[dustymc]

@DerekSikes this might all make sense if you'd care to flesh that definition out, https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctage_class#reproductive isn't terribly helpful.

How's this relate to https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctage_class#non_reproductive?

[Nicole-Ridgwell-NMMNHS]

reproductive: an adult eusocial insect capable of reproduction of unspecified sex (queen/gyne/drone)

I think this definition is fine. I support moving this value to the Caste table as suggested.

I second Dusty's question about non reproductive.

[DerekSikes]

The more typical term for non reproductive is 'worker'. These are the sterile bees, wasps, and ants in eusocial colonies. I suggest changing 'non reproductive' to 'worker'

[dustymc]

suggest changing 'non reproductive' to 'worker'

These are also all UAM:Ento so I don't think that's a problem. Definitions please....

[dustymc]

@DerekSikes can I move all https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctage_class#non_reproductive to https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctcaste#worker now?

Once #7325 is resolved I'll also want to move all https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctage_class#reproductive to whatever it becomes.

HELP!

[DerekSikes]

Yes, 'non reproductive' can become 'worker'; a definition could be

Worker insects are those within social insect colonies (bees, ants, wasps and termites) that are typically not capable of reproducing.

[dustymc]

'non reproductive' can become 'worker';

Done

definition

That's about what's there, https://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=ctcaste#worker

[DerekSikes]

yeah, I added 'typically' because some workers can lay unfertilized eggs which become males if their sisters don't find and kill the eggs.. so they typically do not reproduce, but some can

[dustymc]

temp_ac_rep.csv.zip