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审校《自由与非自由软件的分类》 #246

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Hagb opened this issue Jan 30, 2019 · 17 comments
Closed

审校《自由与非自由软件的分类》 #246

Hagb opened this issue Jan 30, 2019 · 17 comments
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@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 30, 2019

#209

1

自由软件是指附带这样许可的软件 它允许任何人使用、复制和/或再分发……

那个逗号是不是应该改为冒号(冒号的功能之一:用在需要解释的词语后边,表示引出解释或说明。)

2

If it’s not source, it’s not software.
如果它不是源代码,它就不是程序

其实我不是很懂这句话…… 但是软件(software)和程序(program)不是完全重合的……
我不知道这句话中两者是否可以互换。

3

If a program is free, then it can potentially be included in a free operating system such as GNU……
如果一个程序是自由的,它可以潜在地被包含在一种自由的操作系统中,例如 GNU ……

感觉原译文读起来有点奇怪,是不是可以译为“如果一个程序是自由的,它可能可以被包含在一种自由的操作系统中,例如 GNU ……”(这好像也不好)

4

always check the actual distribution terms to see whether users really have all the freedoms that free software implies
……务必查看实际的发布条款以确认用户是否真正拥有自由软件所 暗示 的所有基本自由

觉得“暗示”改为“暗含”可能更好

5

Free software is often more reliable than nonfree software.
自由软件通常比私有软件更可靠。

此处“通常”应是“常常”

6

It is not exactly the same class of software:……
它们并不是与自由软件准确相同的一类软件:……

这里“准确”处可能用“完全”更好

7

However, the differences in extension of the category are small:……
然而,在自由软件与这一延伸类别之间的差别并不大:……

这里“extension”大概是指外延,
这样的话可以译为“然而,两者外延的差别并不大:……”或者“然而,两者外延之间的差别并不大:……”

@tonghuix
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1

自由软件是指附带这样许可的软件 它允许任何人使用、复制和/或再分发……

那个逗号是不是应该改为冒号(冒号的功能之一:用在需要解释的词语后边,表示引出解释或说明。)

这应该是太尊崇原文了,其实是可以改成冒号的。。。

2

If it’s not source, it’s not software.
如果它不是源代码,它就不是程序

其实我不是很懂这句话…… 但是软件(software)和程序(program)不是完全重合的……
我不知道这句话中两者是否可以互换。

我猜测原文想说,如果这玩意没源代码,那么头就不能称其为一个程序。就如同一个人如果不含 DNA,那就不是一个人类一样。

3

If a program is free, then it can potentially be included in a free operating system such as GNU……
如果一个程序是自由的,它可以潜在地被包含在一种自由的操作系统中,例如 GNU ……

感觉原译文读起来有点奇怪,是不是可以译为“如果一个程序是自由的,它可能可以被包含在一种自由的操作系统中,例如 GNU ……”(这好像也不好)

potentially 的意思是:

In a manner showing much potential; with the possibility of happening in a given way. quotations ▼
(obsolete) Powerfully, strongly. quotations ▼

所以我想是不是可以翻译成

如果一个程序是自由的,那么它就很有可能被包含在一种自由的操作系统中,例如 GNU ……

4

always check the actual distribution terms to see whether users really have all the freedoms that free software implies
……务必查看实际的发布条款以确认用户是否真正拥有自由软件所 暗示 的所有基本自由

觉得“暗示”改为“暗含”可能更好

我觉得这么翻译成暗含挺好。

5

Free software is often more reliable than nonfree software.
自由软件通常比私有软件更可靠。

此处“通常”应是“常常”

同意!

6

It is not exactly the same class of software:……
它们并不是与自由软件准确相同的一类软件:……

这里“准确”处可能用“完全”更好

如果稍微意译一下,翻译成“严格一致”呢?

7

However, the differences in extension of the category are small:……
然而,在自由软件与这一延伸类别之间的差别并不大:……

这里“extension”大概是指外延,
这样的话可以译为“然而,两者外延的差别并不大:……”或者“然而,两者外延之间的差别并不大:……”

我同意你的翻译。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 31, 2019

@tonghuix
第 1、4、5、6、7 点可以。
第 2 我还是有点疑惑。
第 3 点,我那个翻译确实不好,我觉得你的没问题,但是“很”的程度是不是原文没有的……另外其实我原来的想法是有一些自由的 Windows 软件以及一些不是运行在操作系统中的软件(比如自由BIOS),自然是无法被包含在一个自由的操作系统里的……所以是不是应该要强调“可能可以”的意思……

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 31, 2019

8

Sometimes people use the term “public domain” in a loose fashion to mean “free” or “available gratis.”
有人以一种不严格的方式来使用“公有领域”这一概念来指代“自由”或 “免费”

这里 “available gratis” 是意译“免费”还是直译“可免费获得”更合适?

9

This means,
for instance, that copyleft licenses generally disallow others to add additional
requirements to the software (though a limited set of safe added requirements
can be allowed) and require making source code available.
例如,这意味着左版许可证普遍禁止他人为该软件添加额外的限制条款(尽管一系列有限的、安全添加的要求可能被允许),并且要求源代码可获得。

我觉得加粗部分译为“有限的一些(a limited set, 或许可以意译为‘某些’)安全添加的条款(此处改为‘条款’是为了和前文‘限制条款’中的‘条款’一致)”可能更好

10

……because our goal is to give every user the freedoms implied by the term “free software.”
……由于我们的终极目标是赋予每位用户自由软件所暗示的所有基本自由

同第4

@tonghuix
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2.先存疑。

3 里面的“很”字确实有点我平时说话的口语风,可以忽略。另外这句里有个被动语态,“那么它可能被包含在比如 GNU 这样的自由操作系统中”。

8 我挺赞成直译的。可以说成是“免费得到”,这就其实还是意译了一下 available

9 我觉得可以,这样用语一致。

10 implied 英文解释是 Suggested without being stated directly。所以说暗含暗示都可以,我突然想如果意译成“蕴含”呢?

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 1, 2019

@tonghuix
10 用“蕴含”也可以,但是需不需要考虑和上文用语一致?

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 1, 2019

我觉得需要,毕竟这两个表达的是同一个意思。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 1, 2019

11

GNU 操作系统是一种类 Unix 操作系统

这句话,非专业用户读起来,会不会有断成 “是 一种类 Unix操作系统”(是某一种类的Unix系统),再加上那个“类”和 Unix 之间的空格可能有迷惑性。

12

The Free Software Foundation follows the rule that we cannot install any proprietary program on our computers……
FSF 遵循这样的规则 我们不能在自己的计算机上安装任何私有软件……

同 1

13

A private program is free software (in a somewhat trivial sense) if its sole user has the four freedoms.
一款私人软件可以是自由软件 (尽管是在一种较为平凡的意义上),如果它的终极用户拥有四项基本自由。

我没弄懂这里“in a somewhat trivial sense”的意思。
看了一下 gnu.org 上繁体中文的翻译是“雖然講起來有點瑣碎”……

14

……one might argue that withholding it from the public is doing wrong to humanity
……独占这款软件而拒绝对公众发布是在对全人类犯罪

我觉得上下文的“举足轻重”和“生死攸关”都可以。但是此处的“犯罪”会不会影响准确性,毕竟这是个法律概念。……

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 2, 2019

  1. 业界现在对 unix-like 的通行直译确实是“类 Unix”,然而为了方便读者理解,有些书会写成“近似 Unix”或者“类似 Unix”。还有的是加引号强行断句。我觉得都可以。

  2. 此处应该翻译为程序。

  3. trivial sense 意为琐碎的感觉,繁体的翻译将其意译了,我不认同这个翻译。in a somewhat trivial sense 在这里我的理解是“虽然私人使用的软件搞成自由软件对其他人帮助不大”

  4. do wrong 有明确的正误判断在里面, 所以举足轻重生死攸关这些就没有表达出来作者的意思。译成犯罪程度有点重了,直译成“做错了”或者意译成“坑”。。。独占这款软件而拒绝对公众发布简直是坑了全人类。。。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 2, 2019

@tonghuix 我这里提到的“举足轻重”和“生死攸关”是这句话前后出现的两处意译,对应的原文分别是

There are occasions when a program is so important that one might argue that withholding it from the public is doing wrong to humanity. However, such cases are rare. Most programs are not that important , and declining to release them is not particularly wrong.

中两处 “important”

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 2, 2019

important 这两处意译没啥问题。尊重原翻译吧。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 2, 2019

此处应该翻译为程序。

???

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 2, 2019

关于第 2、13 点,我还是去问一下 GNU ……

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 2, 2019

此处应该翻译为程序。

???

program 嘛应该翻译成程序

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 2, 2019

哦……原来看到这个……

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 2, 2019

收到 GNU 那边的回信了:

Hi,

  1. What does “If it's not source, it's not software.” mean? Can it be
    expressed as “If it's not source, it's not program.”?
  2. What does “in a somewhat trivial” mean in “A private program is
    free software (in a somewhat trivial sense) if its sole user has the
    four freedoms.”?

Thanks!

Hello Hagb,

Thanks for your questions. Indeed, these passages may be
difficult to understand. Let me try to explain what I think
they mean:

  • “If it's not source, it's not software.” looks like a common
    saying, something that free software developers will say when they
    are presented with a binary-only program. This sentence doesn't
    refer to a specific program, but to all the programs, collectively.
    This is why the word "software" is used. (As you probably know,
    "software" is a mass noun with no plural form, which means
    "programs" [0].)

  • "Trivial" means "of little significance" [1].

Here is the beginning of the section on private software:

| Private or custom software is software developed for one user
| (typically an organization or company). That user keeps it and
| uses it, and does not release it to the public either as source
| code or as binaries.
|
| A private program is free software (in a somewhat trivial sense)
| if its sole user has the four freedoms. [...]

Keep in mind that users of free software are free to redistribute
the program (freedom 2) and to distribute their modified versions
(freedom 3), but are not required to do so [2]. If the program
is not distributed and its sole user has the four freedoms, the
program is free for that one user. Since there is no other user,
it qualifies as free software. But this is of little significance
to us because we don't even know the program exists.

I hope this help.

All the best,
Thérèse

[0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/software
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trivial
[2] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

他提到,"software" is a mass noun with no plural form, which means "programs"。
而中文中“软件”和“程序”似乎并不是像英文那样有可数不可数的区别。
那么关于 2 的译文改不改呢?以及 12?(我个人认为这两处的“程序”和“软件”是不需要改的)
关于 13 ,“虽然私人使用的软件搞成自由软件对其他人帮助不大”的理解是对的。

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 3, 2019

我是真佩服你这考证精神!

我觉得如果要按他这解释的话,其实绝大多数情况下,软件和程序是可以互换的。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 4, 2019

emmm…只是因为能力有限,有些地方实在没法无疑惑地读懂,所以不敢妄下定论…
该篇这就审完了。
我突然想到可以用这种办法解决一些以前没有解决或者有疑问的问题

@Hagb Hagb closed this as completed Feb 5, 2019
@Hagb Hagb mentioned this issue Mar 23, 2019
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