μὲν / δὲ and other "scattered clauses"

[jonathanrobie]

James Tauber posted this sentence from Herodotus on his blog:

τὰ ἄχθεα οἱ μὲν ἄνδρες ἐπὶ τῶν κεφαλέων φορέουσι, αἱ δὲ γυναῖκες ἐπὶ τῶν ὤμων.

The shared object and elision cannot currently be captured in Treedown. This is equivalent to:

cj >
    s οἱ 
    cj* μὲν 
    s ἄνδρες 
    o τὰ ἄχθεα 
    + ἐπὶ τῶν κεφαλέων 
    v φορέουσι
cj >
    s αἱ 
    cj* δὲ 
    s γυναῖκες 
    o τὰ ἄχθεα 
    + ἐπὶ τῶν ὤμων 
    v φορέουσι

Treedown has two constraints on our solution to this problem:

• Treedown maintains word order
• Treedown expects the constituents of a clause to occur at the same level

How do we best model this? Here is one possibility:

.1 τὰ ἄχθεα             # give this a numeric identifier, but don't label it as part of a clause at this level
cj >
    s οἱ 
    cj* μὲν 
    s ἄνδρες 
    o.1                        # the object is whatever .1 has been bound to
    + ἐπὶ τῶν κεφαλέων 
    v.2 φορέουσι       # specifies the verb and binds it to .2 so it can be shared with another clause
cj >
    s αἱ 
    cj* δὲ 
    s γυναῖκες 
    o.1                         # the object is whatever .1 has been bound to
    + ἐπὶ τῶν ὤμων 
    v.2                         # the verb is whatever .2 has been bound to

The lifetime of references should be considered carefully, see Issue #6.

[jonathanrobie]

Some New Testament examples:

• Matt 16:3 τὸ μὲν πρόσωπον τοῦ οὐρανοῦ γινώσκετε διακρίνειν, τὰ δὲ σημεῖα τῶν καιρῶν οὐ δύνασθε;
• Matt 16:13-14 Ἐλθὼν δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἰς τὰ μέρη Καισαρείας τῆς Φιλίππου ἠρώτα τοὺς μαθητὰς αὐτοῦ λέγων· Τίνα λέγουσιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι εἶναι τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου; οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· Οἱ μὲν Ἰωάννην τὸν βαπτιστήν, ἄλλοι δὲ Ἠλίαν, ἕτεροι δὲ Ἰερεμίαν ἢ ἕνα τῶν προφητῶν.
• Matt 22:5 οἱ δὲ ἀμελήσαντες ἀπῆλθον, ὃς μὲν εἰς τὸν ἴδιον ἀγρόν, ὃς δὲ ἐπὶ τὴν ἐμπορίαν αὐτοῦ·

μὲν is frequently associated with this issue.

[jtauber]

There are four distinct issues going on with the Herodotus example, some of which could be solved independently:

• coordination
• postposition
• topicalisation
• gapping

[jonathanrobie]

Could you create new issues as needed?

…

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, James Tauber ***@***.***> wrote: There are four distinct issues going on with the Herodotus example, some of which could be solved independently: - coordination - postposition - topicalisation - gapping — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#7 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABr5vdUcH0OG4ZBec-DRlnklVrpBzxovks5sEV4MgaJpZM4N31p_> .

[mwpalmer]

I think your "one possibility" presented above is easy to follow. I like it.

[jtauber]

I like the "one possibility" approach too for handling the topicalisation and gapping.