Add preset amenity=driver_training

[SteveLz]

Wiki page: amenity=driver_training

[tyrasd]

Thanks for the PR! It seem to be very reasonable to include a preset for this. For reference: currently, there are about 1,500 features mapped with this tag. Most in East Asia and Europe.

There are only a few minor issues with the preset to address, see the inline comments below.

[tyrasd]

Thanks for the adjustments!

Only one request: I only found one amenity=driver_training object on OSM which also had a license_classes tag mapped. I saw that the wiki page mentions its usage, but it clearly doesn't match the practical use. I would like to drop the field from the this preset until usage numbers are reasonable. But let's add this field to the amenity=driving_school preset, shall we?

[SteveLz]

The license_classes are rarely tagged because it is not easy to get the exact value, and even people who have studied in it can't necessarily give a complete value to the driving school. But in East Asia, driving schools basically exist in the form of grounds (although they are widely tagged as driving_school), so the tag for driving schools is also applicable to driver_training, I think it is necessary to keep it. Of course, I also agree to add this field to the amenity=driving_school.

[tyrasd]

But in East Asia, driving schools basically exist in the form of grounds (although they are widely tagged as driving_school)

Hm… 🤔 I interpreted the wiki such that the tag amenity=driver_training would be used only for the area where driving practice is performed (i.e. the paved area and perhaps some garage/service buildings). For the "actual" driving school's facilities (i.e. offices, rooms for theoretical lessons, etc.), one would additionally also map a point or area with amenity=driving_school. And there the license_classes information can be mapped.

[SteveLz]

The main teaching tasks of this kind of driving school are completed in the training ground. The offices and rooms for theoretical lessons are one or more buildings located next to the training ground within the driving school walls. In most cases, the two are not separable, but as a whole. Semantically speaking, a driving school refers to the enclosure, including the training ground and offices. So if amenity=driving_school does not apply to this kind of enclosure, maybe it can only be represented by amenity=driver_training.

[SteveLz]

For the "actual" driving school's facilities (i.e. offices, rooms for theoretical lessons, etc.), one would additionally also map a point or area with amenity=driving_school. And there the license_classes information can be mapped.

Indoor facilities and outdoor venues used for teaching usually belong to the same driving school, and according to the "one feature, one OSM element" principle, they should not be separated.

I saw that the wiki page mentions its usage, but it clearly doesn't match the practical use.

I've added a dozen license_classes=*, but there aren't even as many existing tags in East Asia as I've tagged.
So just a small number doesn't mean it shouldn't be used here, otherwise license_classes=* shouldn't be used in driving schools in East Asia.

I know it can be a little difficult trying to understand something that doesn't exist locally, you can take a look at an example driving school that appears on the wiki page and you may find that just using buildings to represent driving schools is not appropriate.

[Dimitar5555]

Indoor facilities and outdoor venues used for teaching usually belong to the same driving school, and according to the "one feature, one OSM element" principle, they should not be separated.

It depends on the country. I know at least 3 outdoor venues in my city which are open for everyone. Only one is used by a single company but it's free to use by anyone if you don't interrupt them (it's located in the parking lot of a big box store).

[tyrasd]

according to the "one feature, one OSM element" principle, they should not be separated.

I cannot follow this argument. From what I can see, this particular driving school consists of different features: The buildings, the driving practice area, the parking lots, and so on. The part of the site which is dedicated to the driver training could easily be mapped as a separate feature inside the perimeter of the driving_school. Similar to how a playground of a school is typically mapped as a separate area inside of the school area (see schematic). This doesn't contradict the one feature, one OSM element principle.

[SteveLz]

Indoor facilities and outdoor venues used for teaching usually belong to the same driving school, and according to the "one feature, one OSM element" principle, they should not be separated.

It depends on the country. I know at least 3 outdoor venues in my city which are open for everyone. Only one is used by a single company but it's free to use by anyone if you don't interrupt them (it's located in the parking lot of a big box store).

Yes, they may not be common outside of Asia, so I put it in "moreFields" instead of "fields". This will not affect most users, and users who need it can easily add it.

[SteveLz]

according to the "one feature, one OSM element" principle, they should not be separated.

I cannot follow this argument. From what I can see, this particular driving school consists of different features: The buildings, the driving practice area, the parking lots, and so on. The part of the site which is dedicated to the driver training could easily be mapped as a separate feature inside the perimeter of the driving_school. Similar to how a playground of a school is typically mapped as a separate area inside of the school area (see schematic). This doesn't contradict the one feature, one OSM element principle.

Yes, but if it works, I think this tag will not be widely used so soon. Because driving_school is considered an indoor facility and doesn't include an outdoor facility (see wiki and talk page), and carto does not provide rendering of the areas because of this.
If you think a driving_school can exist as a ground, can you post your opinion on the talk page? I think this will help us find a right direction.

[tyrasd]

Thanks for the additional links. 👍 I'm still a bit surprised that amenity=driving_school should be limited indoor facilities of a driving school, but OK 🤷 In my humble opinion it would make sense to map driving schools just like regular schools: as the whole area of the school including the indoor facilities (buildings) and surrounding associated outdoor facilities, maybe the fact that in some countries driving schools have such associated driver_training areas was just overlooked, because they don't exist in Europe, North America, and other places?

[tyrasd]

I think I overlooked a valid use case for the license_classes field on amenity=driver_training objects: A specific driving training facility might only be able to accommodate only certain kinds of vehicles (e.g. only motorcycles or cars, but not trucks or buses). This could be possibly be mapped using using the corresponding access tags, but it might be also the case that the driver training facility defines this according to the matching driving license classes. I think in for these use cases, it could make sense to include it as an optional field.

[1ec5]

I'm still a bit surprised that amenity=driving_school should be limited indoor facilities of a driving school, but OK 🤷 In my humble opinion it would make sense to map driving schools just like regular schools: as the whole area of the school including the indoor facilities (buildings) and surrounding associated outdoor facilities, maybe the fact that in some countries driving schools have such associated driver_training areas was just overlooked, because they don't exist in Europe, North America, and other places?

Just another data point in case it helps:

My driving “school” in Ohio consisted of two parts: classroom instruction in a high school classroom rented out for the weekend, plus on-road sessions with a driving instructor that started and ended at an office in a little strip mall. I didn’t spend any time at the office; the instructor had me take them on personal errands around town. Some high schools partner with third parties to offer driver training as an amenity, but there’s no dedicated training “area” to speak of.

My driving test consisted of three parts: first a written exam at this exam station, followed by a maneuverability test on this normally empty parking lot, followed by an on-road test going around this little downtown. You could call the second part a driver training area, since there’s always someone there either taking their test or practicing for one, but it’s just part of a parking lot. I’d be more inclined to model it as a member in a site relation, since the complex is shared with other facilities including a police station.

At one point, my insurance company offered a discount for taking a voluntary course on defensive driving. So I returned to the aforementioned high school, where an instructor had rented out an empty parking lot for the weekend.

I have seen dedicated driver training facilities, especially for motorcycles in California, where that’s a popular option, but I rarely if ever see any offices or buildings associated with them. Physically, it’s just a paved lot with specialized markings on it.

[1ec5]

“Driving license” is understandable but not quite correct in any dialect of English. The source string should be changed to “driver’s license”, per American English. (The British English term would be “driving licence”; the Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand English localizations would have their own translations as well.)

[1ec5]

Apart from that, “driver’s license classes” is confusing in the context of a preset for driver training. At first, when I tried to translate this string, I thought it meant “classes for obtaining a driver’s license”, but this key actually means “classes of driver’s license”. On the Driver Training Grounds preset, a user might end up leaving this field blank because no classes are taught there. I’d suggest changing this string to “License Classifications” or “Classes of Driver’s License” to avoid confusion.

[tyrasd]

I've changed the spelling/wording in 7f0b1e4