Use no-go areas in route planning

[devemux86]

Route planning with no-go areas arrives in Cruiser:

• Add no-go areas (long press on map)

• No-go areas have their own menu:

  • Move them (precisely with a new crosshair)

  • Resize them (change their radius)

  • Delete them

• No-go areas are saved in favorites: Store no-go areas in favorites #545

No-go areas work similarly to the BRouter website.

An example of routing with no-go areas:

Before	After

[devemux86]

(open external BRouter no-go files will be removed)

[devemux86]

If you could add a feature for NoGoAerias, similar to Favorites?
Select a NoGoAeria with crosshair, add radius,name.
Saved in “my collection”.

Originally posted by @Leeb64.

[devemux86]

Why would we need to store the no-go areas in favorites with names?
This requires a lot of work to implement UI and underlying structure.

No-go areas are essential part of the routes, like waypoints.
So they can be saved / loaded / transferred inside the routes.

[WolfgangZ42]

Okay - this are no-go-areas for planning a new route. Question: will these no-go-area definition stored as part of the route - for later changes? Sorry - is already answered in the first post.
And I'm using a polygon no-go-area since more as a year - see: #85 (comment) and it works! Today I can already select stored no-go-areas by define them with /Routing/Options/Advanced:

[WolfgangZ42]

Not insisting in the polygon no-go-area (btw: I've a tablet with keyboard and mouse ...) but would like to define no-go-areas permanently for a specific profile and not just for a route. Again: consider road-work for several months or avoiding a downtown area of a city.
Nevertheless the route-related no-go-areas are absolutely usefull as well.

[devemux86]

Favorites are global for all profiles, so it not simple to change now their structure and separate them.

If we have favorite no-go areas, we could use them easily from favorites?
Just like we use the favorite points to set waypoints in route planning.

---

About the favorite no-go areas, I created a new topic as it is a different feature,
please let's discuss them there:

• Store no-go areas in favorites #545

[0709wiwiwi]

Non route related fixed nogo areas.

not easy to design complicated shapes on Android just with hand gestures.

To design a polygon nogo rte or trk by a mobile unit is basic simple.
Tap routepoint 1 and 2 by straight line and continue by extend route.
In the current beta, the extend route button is only accessible after 2 taps.
That the design buttons are hidden deeper becomes quite annoying.
The unreserved 3x4 button panel offered more opportunities for this.

[devemux86]

3x4 panels can work nicely when there are no texts in the buttons, but only icons.

[0709wiwiwi]

I also followed the all-too-long buttons and panel discussion.
It was immediately clear that you cannot fix this definitively.
The deeper buttons are hidden the more difficult it becomes.

[devemux86]

@WolfgangZ42

Please see Cruiser 4.1.0-b2 where BRouter external no-go files can work with internal no-go areas.

[bios4]

• We could also separate the route from the no-go areas in the clear dialog

👍 from my side for that suggestion - it would be great to have the option to KEEP set up no-go areas INTACT when deleting a route (via Main menu > Routing > Clear):

[devemux86]

@bios4 it is indeed an interesting suggestion.

The workflow right now is that the no-go areas are saved with the route data.
So it needs changes in the structure to work differently and exist on their own.

e.g. we set some waypoints and the route calculation fails for whatever reason.
When we restart the app the waypoints have not been saved. Similar case here.

[bios4]

when deleting a route (via Main menu > Routing > Clear)

And also after long-pressing the Route > Clear... 😉

[bios4]

Regarding the German translation of the new function: simply display "Verbotene Bereiche" (instead of "Farbe des verbotenen Bereichs") in Main > Settings > Routing > Appearance > Colors...

[WolfgangZ42]

the option to KEEP set up no-go areas INTACT when deleting a route

Not only that - why not save them for later use?

Status quo:
The no-go areas defined within the route planning in circle format are automatically displayed and saved with the navigable track (but also in JSON and Kurviger format). In addition, there are also the "permanent" no-go areas (circles and polygons) which are located inform of gpx files in a directory and can be activated via /Routing/Options/Advanced/No-go areas.

Suggestion:
Now I have learned (thanks Willy) that it is also possible to define tracks as no-go areas. I promptly changed my polygon for the Munich Diesel ban zone in a track version. Advantage: I can display the no-go zone (as well as all other no-go tracks) via /My collection/Tracks and a separate group. See my example:

A separate category in /My collection called No-go areas for tracks and circles would be perfect:

No-go tracks could be inserted like into /My collection/Tracks. Circles could be defined as done now in the planning process and additionally saved permanently, whereby a name must of course be assigned (e.g. "nogo800 Downtown Augsburg"). Something like this:

Then we can use this no-go area not only in the current route but also in upcoming routes in the future.

Activate all relevant no-go areas from this category profile-dependent via /Routing/Options/Advanced/No-go areas and then also display it on the map.

No high priority, I'm one of few users who deal with no-go areas and can live with the current situation as well.

[devemux86]

define tracks as no-go areas

Note that they are not the same:

• No-go areas block routing inside their bounds
• No-go tracks block routing only on their lines (not within their perimeter)

[devemux86]

@WolfgangZ42 thanks, you described the needs and possible functions very well! 👍

[umpfmpf]

Is it also possible to define individual points from a gpx file as a no-go area? In my case, however, this file may change daily and should not be saved permanently in the favorites? It should only be used for this one day and on the next day should a new file be used.
poi_export.gpx.txt

[devemux86]

We will see about the format content, as there is no standard.

Anyway the app has to remember the no-go areas, so they need to be saved, could be in favorites.
Then they could be enabled / disabled or deleted again.

[devemux86]

No-go areas must have location + size.
The simplest form is a circle with center + radius, like in BRouter website.

A gpx with simple waypoints does not describe their size, just their location.
Unless a radius of default X meters is used.

[devemux86]

Next Cruiser can handle all types of shapes as no-go areas, like points / circles and polygons.

I updated the screenshots in the announcement, please check them!

As you can see, the route planning in Cruiser now becomes extremely detailed and intelligent. 🙂

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All no-go area types can be stored in "My collection" and turn on / off their no-go function:

• Store no-go areas in favorites #545

[devemux86]

No-go areas as polygons are supported in addition to BRouter and in Valhalla and OpenRouteService routing.

[devemux86]

Use no-go areas in route planning is available in:

• Cruiser 5.0.0 (Beta) #610

• Instructions: Use no-go areas in route planning #538 (comment)

[Ciutnik]

This works in Cruiser 5. Thanks! 👍
Unfortunately, it works globally, in all profiles?

And a second thought: I only have a problem now with several "nogo-tracks" that I have defined for myself on roads that I never want to drive. In Cruiser 4 I loaded them together with areas (which were also de facto tracks). Now I can replace them with a "nogo-circle", but this may not always be a good solution.

[devemux86]

Now you can change their visibility per app profile

@Ciutnik currently there is a reported problem we first need to fix.

It's probably just a matter of visibility on the map. It's easier to spot a long track on the road than a tiny circle.

We could probably display something like a symbol in small zooms to indicate the presence of no-go circles.

[Ciutnik]

@devemux86

We could probably display something like a symbol in small zooms to indicate the presence of no-go circles.

You can do it on your own. Here is a combination of a 50 meter circle, track (until now it was nogo, now only visible) and an icon 🙂

[DIrgi]

Don't get me wrong but where do you guys have all this "no-go" zones?
If they are existing already in the maps (i.e. military zones, private areas), they are most likely not open for public routing so they won't work anyway and if we talk about blocked tracks/roads for what we normally do - These are no zones as well but blocked roads and tracks like here in the picture the dotted line (only).

I rather see zones when it comes to environment reasons but then they most likely depend on the vehicle you drive and they are most likely not a circle but following borders of an (city, county etc.)area.

[devemux86]

@DIrgi it's not only for defined "zones" by organizations.

No-go areas (as demonstrated also in BRouter website) are extremely useful to freely customize the routing.

• We use shaping points to make routes going where we want

• We use no-go areas to make routes NOT going where we want
  e.g. avoid cities, villages, already visited areas or roads, ... The possibilities are endless.

[DIrgi]

I see but then it's just like defining Start and End point and let the system then calculate by avoiding these "areas".
Ok, I never plan like this I use at least shaping points to force the system where I want to go or not and exclude the "no go zones" then by myself in advance but if you mainly let the system decide by creating a random route, this might make sense.

[umpfmpf]

I imported my blocked motorcycle routes into the no-go areas and they are now displayed and bypassed properly. However, only the 2 coordinates that are specified, i.e. start and end point, are displayed as points, but it works.

[DIrgi]

Gimme A second I can share

[devemux86]

I assume for the "no go areas" there cannot used any time/day period which should be in consideration

Probably, but isn't it easier to have them in a group and switch group's visibility on / off?

[DIrgi]

unfortunately not really - depending on the no-go area/ road.
If it'll be a road/zone what you always like to block all the time forever then yes, but if a block should be timewise and your routing should have it in consideration, a lot of road blockings are different some only on several days some completely and some only during a (summer) period or only from 7am to 7pm and so on.

Even the kurviger desktop page just show you the information that a road might be blocked but allows you to plan because kurviger never knows for which vehicle you plan and which time.

A couple of years ago I used google maps for route planning then I recognized when I plan in winter a tour what I would like to drive in the summertime via some passes in the alps, Google always guided me around, because in winter time (so present, right now while I'm planning) the road was blocked. I had google to tell that I plan for summer time (by setting the departure time to summer) then it works but after all it was to complicated an google maps is not really a planning tool for a long time route for several days.

[devemux86]

We already have the departure date / time as a feature idea,
so it could be combined if we enrich the no-go areas with a date / time period.

• Set departure time in route planning #606

[DIrgi]

yes, but ones again. Finally it'll be a hell of work due to many different regulations. I assume nobody will really use this function or at least just for a few of them.
At the end to be precise you have to define for every blocked area route/area it's own boundaries and then it's 100% perfect and routing will have it in consideration in that way that maybe today you can drive to road and tomorrow only during 7am to 6pm

Example (extraction of road closures)

<wpt lat="52.1570778" lon="9.0322208">
    <time>2011-09-01T16:39:34Z</time>
    <name>31737 SaSo -Eiergrund</name>
    <cmt>1.4. - 30.9.</cmt>
    <desc>1.4. - 30.9.</desc>
    <sym>Navaid, Green/Red</sym>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3">
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolOnly</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>
  <wpt lat="52.1497123" lon="9.0679531">
    <time>2011-09-18T19:32:30Z</time>
    <name>31737 SaSo -Möllenbeck</name>
    <cmt>1.4. - 30.9.</cmt>
    <desc>1.4. - 30.9.</desc>
    <sym>Navaid, Green/Red</sym>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3">
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolOnly</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>
  <wpt lat="52.2798110" lon="9.4929425">
    <time>2011-09-18T19:32:41Z</time>
    <name>31848 So -Nienstedt</name>
    <cmt>6 - 22 Uhr</cmt>
    <desc>6 - 22 Uhr</desc>
    <sym>Navaid, Green/Red</sym>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:WaypointExtension xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3">
        <gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolOnly</gpxx:DisplayMode>
      </gpxx:WaypointExtension>
    </extensions>
  </wpt>

So, the first and second ones are blocked on ALL Saturdays and Sundays BUT ONLY between 1.4. and 30.9
The third one is blocked on Sunday only and only between 6 and 22h.

These are just some examples....

[devemux86]

We could also allow the lines to be used as no-go areas (BRouter seems to support it).
Not sure about the performance as lines are always complex geometries.

Now we have no-go circles and polygons.

[umpfmpf]

That wouldn't be bad, as some routes also have intersections and you're still not allowed to drive there. That would be better than just marking the end points.

[DIrgi]

@umpfmpf : You have to fulfill two criteria's.

1. You have to have a POI to mark the information (what you already have) and
2. You have to have an additional track to mark the section which is blocked.

Both together have to be displayed then it works. One is the informal part and one the visible one.

Here are the files:
Unzip

DACH temp road blokings.zip

put the POI file into your Favorites folder, make it visible, define your zoom level, give a red color, select your own sign.
put the TRACKS file into your track/area folder, generate maybe a sub folder "road closure" put the file there and do the same like you did with the POIs - et voila now you have all available road closures for DACH - file status is from 04/2024

have fun

[umpfmpf]

Is it possible to create multiple ornaments with no-go areas?One for cities, one for weekend closures, one for complete closures and one for seasonal closures, such as in the mountains?
Thanks to @DIrgi

[Ciutnik]

Of course. It's a simple gpx, but I guess it doesn't matter.

nogo_SCT-Warszawa.gpx.txt

[devemux86]

@WolfgangZ42

But: because "My collection" applies to all profiles, I will no longer be able to assign the no-go area only to the "Car" profile by default, but will have to make changes manually in "My collection" when changing profiles. This is a step backwards. We discussed that already more than once ...

Maybe you missed the news, but now the visibility of the favorites, routes, tracks / areas can be customized per profile.
So enable them in one profile, disable them in the other profile. When they are enabled they are used for their purpose.
Overlays for display, no-go areas for routing, etc.

• Favorites customization in profiles #597

[devemux86]

With GPX we need to check if the track / route is "closed", i.e. starts / ends at same point to import it as polygon.

GeoJSON specification contains all types: Point, LineString, Polygon, MultiPoint, MultiLineString and MultiPolygon.

See here for details and how each type is written: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoJSON

---

@WolfgangZ42

Your GeoJSON is not a polygon. It contains a "LineString" type, so all readers load it as line.

[WolfgangZ42]

Maybe you missed the news

Sorry for complaining unnecessarily Emux - you are right, I didn't get that. Now tested with my "old" polygon of 2023 - works!
I'll stick to this approach and give up the GeoJSON line - there is no real reason for "fine tuning" the polygon.
Thanks for your patience.

[WolfgangZ42]

It's a simple gpx, but I guess it doesn't matter.

@Ciutnik Sometimes simple is better than high-sophisticated ... my thoughts regarding GeoJSON went in the wrong direction.
Your gpx file is quite identical with mine.
Now that I have Poland implemented in my maps, I should plan a tour there. Ten years ago, I went to Masuria with my wife, but without a motorcycle - we have fond memories of that.

[0709wiwiwi]

Up until now (v 4) the gpx track worked like a nogo even if not perfectly closed. Start and end position at a place without any intermediate roads the router could not get in anyway. As a cyclist, go zones are more important than nogo ;-) Anyway I do not test the beta v 5 others have the honor to pull the chestnuts out of the fire ;-)

[devemux86]

@0709wiwiwi if you mean loading external BRouter no-go files,
this was handled by BRouter without us knowing what happens.

Also the no-go file names were a bit confusing with restrictions, so many users had errors.

As was already mentioned, we can add a no-go switch to tracks too, if there is real interest.
Just remember that complex no-go make route calculation slower, so don't complain later. 🙂

And polygons or tracks can be very complex, users do not understand it,
they just enable switches and expect everything to work with the same speed.

[Ciutnik]

Just remember that complex no-go make route calculation slower, so don't complain later.

I see another problem here, which has already been mentioned here: the no-go path will block the passage across as well. And this may not be obvious to newcomers.

[0709wiwiwi]

the no-go path will block the passage across as well. And this may not be obvious to newcomers.

Agree.

[0709wiwiwi]

Still, this. I checked with Wolfgang first. For that middle ring in Munich, on the other hand, it is advantageous. The nogo is (must be) including that ring. A counter clock wise design.

[WolfgangZ42]

Yes Willy, it was perfectly the contour of "Mittlerer Ring" and it worked excellent. But right now I threw away all this stuff and only use my polygon which does the job as well.

[devemux86]

• Use no-go areas in route planning in Cruiser 5.0.0 #641

For instructions please see above.