Drop support of Tcl/Tk older than 8.5.12

[serhiy-storchaka]

BPO	46996
Nosy	@terryjreedy, @ronaldoussoren, @serhiy-storchaka, @erlend-aasland, @E-Paine
PRs	bpo-46996: Remove support of Tcl/Tk < 8.5.12 #31839 gh-91152: IDLE: Drop workarounds for old Tk versions #31962

^{Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.}

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GitHub fields:

assignee = None
closed_at = <Date 2022-03-17.17:32:23.273>
created_at = <Date 2022-03-12.16:03:38.426>
labels = ['tests', '3.11', 'type-feature', 'expert-tkinter', 'library']
title = 'Drop support of Tcl/Tk older than 8.5.12'
updated_at = <Date 2022-03-19.15:14:25.332>
user = 'https://github.com/serhiy-storchaka'

bugs.python.org fields:

activity = <Date 2022-03-19.15:14:25.332>
actor = 'serhiy.storchaka'
assignee = 'none'
closed = True
closed_date = <Date 2022-03-17.17:32:23.273>
closer = 'terry.reedy'
components = ['Library (Lib)', 'Tests', 'Tkinter']
creation = <Date 2022-03-12.16:03:38.426>
creator = 'serhiy.storchaka'
dependencies = []
files = []
hgrepos = []
issue_num = 46996
keywords = ['patch']
message_count = 9.0
messages = ['414999', '415394', '415395', '415397', '415420', '415423', '415434', '415472', '415555']
nosy_count = 5.0
nosy_names = ['terry.reedy', 'ronaldoussoren', 'serhiy.storchaka', 'erlendaasland', 'epaine']
pr_nums = ['31839', '31962']
priority = 'normal'
resolution = 'fixed'
stage = 'resolved'
status = 'closed'
superseder = None
type = 'enhancement'
url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue46996'
versions = ['Python 3.11']

[serhiy-storchaka]

In bpo-45979 E. Paine suggested to drop support of Tcl/Tk older than 8.5.12 (8.5.12 was released on 2012-07-27 and 8.6.0 on 2012-12-20). Tkinter tests contain workarounds and special cases for older versions of Tcl/Tk, many of them can be removed. Also some Python and C code of tkinter can be simplified.

[ronaldoussoren]

One consideration is support for older LTS distributions of Linux, RHEL/Centos 7 appears to ship with Tcl/Tk 8.5.

The system install of Tcl/Tk on macOS is also 8.5, but that variant has too many bugs to try to support it.

[serhiy-storchaka]

8.5.12 will be 10 years old at the time of releasing 3.11.

We can relax the requirements for 8.5.x, so the code can be build with older versions, but some tests will fail because we removed workarounds for differences in behavior in older versions from tests.

The LTS distributions can also provide their own patches which relax the requirements.

[serhiy-storchaka]

New changeset c2e3c06 by Serhiy Storchaka in branch 'main':
bpo-46996: Remove support of Tcl/Tk < 8.5.12 (GH-31839)
c2e3c06

[terryjreedy]

Ronald: According to a page (which I cannot find, E. Paine should know) Centos 7 has the oldest tcl among current *nix distributions.
https://centos.pkgs.org/7/centos-x86_64/tcl-8.5.13-8.el7.x86_64.rpm.html
says it is 8.5.13, which is what I remember from the comparison page.

Serhiy: IDLE has required TkVersion >= 8.5 for some years (currently top of pyshell.py). Does the _tkinter.c line
#error "Tk older than 8.5.12 not supported"
translate into an ImportError (which is already caught). I never worried about someone trying to import 8.3 or before, but Apple's 8.5.9 is possible.

Is there any reason that IDLE might someday require 8.6 before tkinter does?

[serhiy-storchaka]

After PR 31839 has been merged you cannot build the _tkinter module with Tcl/Tk older than 8.5.12. If you will still try to run IDLE on such incomplete build, an import error during importing tkinter will be translated to IDLE error:

$ ./python -m idlelib
** IDLE can't import Tkinter.
Your Python may not be configured for Tk. **

IDLE might someday require 8.6 if it start using some 8.6 features non-optionally.

[terryjreedy]

tk release availability is a bit confusing.
https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/Changes+in+Tcl%2FTk+8%2E6
appears to lists things 'new' in 3.6.1, but that seems to mean new since 8.5.1, as it includes thing introduced in 8.5.n, where n > 1. For instance, ttk spinbox is listed in this doc, but was available in 8.5.9, so is in 8.5.12+ and can be used without an 8.6 requirement.

Similarly,
https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/ttk_treeview.html
the 8.5.19 doc for the widget, shows the 'new in 8.6' treeview tag commands. I suspect that they were present in 8.5.13. Is there a specific 8.5.12 doc available? I searched and tried adding '.12' in the url above and both failed. Buildbots without _tkinter don't help either.

[ronaldoussoren]

Terry: tkinter on macOS already effectively does not support Tk 8.5, or basically anything bug the latest 8.6.x release. That's because older versions have too many bugs that affect Python users, which mostly show up on our tracker as bug reports about IDLE.

Because of this we generally close issues that mention using tkinter with 8.5 on macOS unless the problem can be reproduced using 8.6 as well (using the installer on python.org).

[serhiy-storchaka]

New changeset 383a3be by Serhiy Storchaka in branch 'main':
gh-91152: IDLE: Drop workarounds for old Tk versions (GH-31962)
383a3be

[terryjreedy]

@serhiy-storchaka @ned-deily Does this tk requirement update affect the need for IDLE to support 4 Apple graphics versions in idlelib.macOS? Or is it a matter of how far back tk support goes?